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Thread: What are Yuna Kim's strongest points as a skater?

  1. #361
    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    The author of the book, "The Right Stuff", Thomas Wolf would disagree with you.
    And you, what is your opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    So, you can't say Yang Bo was the "best balance beam worker of her era", IF SHE DIDN'T WIN. You can SAY she had the most promise or the best form, but that is all.
    I think one can still say she was the best balance beam worker of her era---she just wasn't a particularly good competitor.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    The author of the book, "The Right Stuff", Thomas Wolf would disagree with you. If Yu-Na is unable to win in Sochi it might well be because of this latest injury of hers, DUE TO THE APPROACH AND RESULT OF HER TRAINING. But at the end of the day the hard truth will be she didn't have the "right stuff" (ALL that is needed to win); it's ALL included no matter how unfair it might seem. So, you can't say Yang Bo was the "best balance beam worker of her era", IF SHE DIDN'T WIN. You can SAY she had the most promise or the best form, but that is all.
    But that's silly; Yuna has already shown she has everything needed to win from her Olympic title and her 2 World Championships. Even if the injury prevented her from doing her best at Sochi, there will always be people saying "Kostner/Asada/Whoever Else" may have won, but Yuna wasn't at her best there." Saying that being prevented from winning by an injury or by flopping when it counted most means you "didn't have the right stuff" is like saying "Kristi Yamaguchi was a better jumper than Midori Ito because she landed her jumps when it counted."

  3. #363
    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    But that's silly; Yuna has already shown she has everything needed to win from her Olympic title and her 2 World Championships. Even if the injury prevented her from doing her best at Sochi, there will always be people saying "Kostner/Asada/Whoever Else" may have won, but Yuna wasn't at her best there." Saying that being prevented from winning by an injury or by flopping when it counted most means you "didn't have the right stuff" is like saying "Kristi Yamaguchi was a better jumper than Midori Ito because she landed her jumps when it counted."
    I am a huge Yu-Na fan but when she lost the Worlds to Miki Ando it is because she didn't have what it takes (that day at least) and the gold around Miki's neck was the proof of it all. Many people like to maintain that Sasha is a better figure skater than Yu-Na. Wrong. When you are talking COMPETITION skating the ONLY thing that matters is where one ends up on the podium; the reward and affirmation of good work, good program, support, talent, nerves, health and often timing/luck. I wouldn't pay to see Miki but I would Yu-Na. But that is apples and oranges. Regardless of raw ability and an impressive list of accomplishments if she doesn't win gold at the Olympics people can make the argument, and with good cause, that she wasn't the figure skater Katerina Witt was and that would be sad and maybe even tragic but that is what the "kiss and cry" is for. In golfing circles there is this guy who was famous in golfing circles for his amazing striking ability, meaning he could hit the golf ball within a few feet of where he aimed. I don't remember his name. You know why? Because everything else about his game was sub par and so he rarely won. Great striker? Yes. Great golfer, no. So to say, Ito was a better jumper than Kristi is irrelevant because, yes, when it counted Kristi made the jumps and that meant she was the better FIGURE SKATER (at least on that day) and that is what we are talking about here, right?

  4. #364
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    When you are talking COMPETITION skating the ONLY thing that matters is where one ends up on the podium.
    May be. But when you are talking Greatest of All Time you are talking body of work. Fifty years from now we can revisit the question and see whose programs are still watched over and over. The great skater may have lost the battle, but won the war.

    It's your legacy, your impact on the sport, not whether you won this medal or that.

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    I don't want to offend anyone, but, do you think that something like the "Greatest, Best ... of all time" is actually an achievable rank? We never saw Witt compete against Yuna, we never saw both of them compete versus Henie and so on.

    From my point of view, you just cant say who the best is or was, as not all were fighting with the same tools, not all in the same time and especially not against each other.

    What you can say is who the most successful one was and if I am not mistaken it would be Sonja Henie.

    That doesn't change the fact though, that everyone of us has his personal "best of all time", but this is more based on the impact that particular Skater had on us, than the actual "performance ranking" among all skaters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    May be. But when you are talking Greatest of All Time you are talking body of work. Fifty years from now we can revisit the question and see whose programs are still watched over and over. The great skater may have lost the battle, but won the war.

    It's your legacy, your impact on the sport, not whether you won this medal or that.
    Impact on whom? In what way? The thing is, the most consistent champions (like Michelle Kwan) have the biggest impact and legacy. It's really tough to have a counter example (apart from Janet Lynn). The skaters with the biggest impact tend to be those who have a certain level of both longevity and dominance: Kwan in the US, Slutskaya in Russia, Asada in Japan, and Kim in Korea (and Asia in general). All of them have won several major titles. In fact, Lynn's exception just may prove the rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    May be. But when you are talking Greatest of All Time you are talking body of work. Fifty years from now we can revisit the question and see whose programs are still watched over and over. The great skater may have lost the battle, but won the war.
    I will concede that. And maybe she doesn't have to win it all and to tell you the truth this argument of mine has been more of an academic exercise by me and doesn't really reflect how I think it will all turn out for Yu-Na. Her Lark Ascending at the 2007 Worlds was one of my favorites of hers even if it cost her the championship. No matter what her setbacks, I would expect at least that kind of performance from her and if she skates like that in Sochi she will have secured her place in the annals of figure skating greats.

  8. #368
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    LOL at this thread.....I can go on for days about why I freaking love Stephane Lambiel and why he's the one and only skating god but I don't. I don't force feed my uberdom to others, but why do others always do it to me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    LOL at this thread.....I can go on for days about why I freaking love Stephane Lambiel and why he's the one and only skating god but I don't. I don't force feed my uberdom to others, but why do others always do it to me?
    lol.. Check again the thread title! What did you expect? If someone start one about Lambiel, I can see people like me going on and on gushing over him too.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Impact on whom? In what way? The thing is, the most consistent champions (like Michelle Kwan) have the biggest impact and legacy.
    That is my point. Michelle Kwan never won an Olympic gold medal, but she had a greater impact on the sport than many who did. Kurt Browning never won an Olympic medal of any kind, yet he would be a defensible choice for all-time great consideration.

    It's really tough to have a counter example (apart from Janet Lynn)....In fact, Lynn's exception just may prove the rule.
    Janet Lynn is indeed unique. Without ever winning anything except some national titles, she brought down the whole sport of figure skating, replacing it with a new thing altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex D View Post
    That doesn't change the fact though, that everyone of us has his personal "best of all time", but this is more based on the impact that particular Skater had on us, than the actual "performance ranking" among all skaters.
    Quite so. I wouldn't want it any other way.

    But here's an objective and quantifiable test. The skater with the greatest number of hits on You Tube is the most popular of all time. That would be 9-year-old Starr Andrews with Whip My Hair (14,000,000 views). Runner-up, the ice dancer who fell out of her costume in the middle of a performance.
    Last edited by Mathman; 09-29-2013 at 05:50 PM.

  11. #371
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But here's an objective and quantifiable test. The skater with the greatest number of hits on You Tube is the most popular of all time. That would be 9-year-old Starr Andrews with Whip My Hair (14,000,000 views). Runner-up, the ice dancer who fell out of her costume in the middle of a performance.
    That would be Ekaterina Rubleva (of Rubleva & Shefer RUS). I will remind everyone that Ekaterina was doing the Finnstep CD while having her wardrobe malfunction. So don't y'all try to tell me that people can't be gotten to watch a Compulsory Dance

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That is my point. Michelle Kwan never won an Olympic gold medal, but she had a greater impact on the sport than many who did. Kurt Browning never won an Olympic medal of any kind, yet he would be a defensible choice for all-time great consideration.

    Janet Lynn is indeed unique. Without ever winning anything except some national titles, she brought down the whole sport of figure skating, replacing it with a new thing altogether.
    Well my point was that these skaters apart from Janet have all won either multiple Worlds and/or Olympic gold medals. They won both key battles (if not all of them) and the war.

    Now I'm not so sure about evaluating Kim's legacy at this point and comparing them to Kwan's or Browning's. She's not done competitively yet, although she has undoubtedly inspired many young skaters (not just Koreans) and have influenced their decisions and choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Now I'm not so sure about evaluating Kim's legacy at this point and comparing them to Kwan's or Browning's. She's not done competitively yet, although she has undoubtedly inspired many young skaters (not just Koreans) and have influenced their decisions and choices.
    Yes, she will leave her own legacy for sure and obviously has many followers among the young skaters. Recently, Radionova expressed her admiration in an interview after Nebelhorn: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130928/690145029.html

    [Google translated] Elena Radionova, won a landslide victory in his first senior competition - competition Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf, said the agency "F-Sport", which seeks to ride as beautiful and confident as Olympic champion and world champion Korean Kim Yu-Na.

    "As long as Axel in three and a half times I will not do - Radionova said, responding to a question about whether she's going to continue to complicate the program. - It is better to focus on the triple jump - and ride beautiful as Kim Yu-Na. She jumps triple so beautiful that her axel in three and a half turns is not necessary - it will benefit all of the components.'s what I want to jump like it. were to ease, a beautiful glide and beautiful jumps. If complicate the program, it is only moving the stages of the second half."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    In golfing circles there is this guy who was famous in golfing circles for his amazing striking ability, meaning he could hit the golf ball within a few feet of where he aimed. I don't remember his name. You know why? Because everything else about his game was sub par and so he rarely won. Great striker? Yes. Great golfer, no. So to say, Ito was a better jumper than Kristi is irrelevant because, yes, when it counted Kristi made the jumps and that meant she was the better FIGURE SKATER (at least on that day) and that is what we are talking about here, right?
    Are you maybe talking about Moe Norman, the Canadian golf savant?

  15. #375
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Now I'm not so sure about evaluating Kim's legacy at this point and comparing them to Kwan's or Browning's. She's not done competitively yet, although she has undoubtedly inspired many young skaters (not just Koreans) and have influenced their decisions and choices.
    IMHO Kim's legacy is utterly secure. This child has never finished off the podium. Her two masterpieces, the 2010 Olympic LP and the 2013 world championship LP, are two of the finest in figure skating history. They will never be diminished. She took a wrecking ball and demolished the CoP. She wrote the manual on jump technique. She can stand with the giants preceding her and not be ashamed.

    I suppose it is not fair -- after all, we are talking about skating, not character off the ice -- to mention how she conducts herself away from the sport, so I will stop here.

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