What are Yuna Kim's strongest points as a skater? | Page 15 | Golden Skate

What are Yuna Kim's strongest points as a skater?

cosmos

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Well, it's more than this. All three of the spins were overscored by .5 or more, the +3's on the second Triple Lutz were out of place, the first triple Sal got all +2's. I think she was overscored by 4 points technically. I feel the PCS were also "objectively" overscored, but they were appropriate as compared to what the other contenders for a medal received (except Murakami - she is always held down). Still, those extra 4 points from GOE and also overly-buffered PCS are pretty unfair to the rest of the field, as it means she's nearly impossible to beat even though she doesn't actually have the technical content or choreographic difficultly/brilliance to really deserve it if someone else comes out and does better than her.

Although, there weren't actually any such "choreographically brilliant" Long Programs among the women for the 2012-2013 season that would have deserved to go much higher than Yu-Na in PCS. So it's sort of a fruitless gripe. But, at the same time, I think objectively accurate scoring is important. That's the whole point of CoP - quantifiableness.

GOE and PCS are subjective part of CoP. That is why there are several judges. If score can be given objectively accurate, only one judge is enough. There is no way GOE and PCS can be given objectively accurate. That is the whole point of CoP. The objectively accurate scores you claim YuNa deserved are simply the subjective opinion of a skating fan.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Krislite

Medalist
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Sep 22, 2010
Well, it's more than this. All three of the spins were overscored by .5 or more, the +3's on the second Triple Lutz were out of place, the first triple Sal got all +2's. I think she was overscored by 4 points technically. I feel the PCS were also "objectively" overscored, but they were appropriate as compared to what the other contenders for a medal received (except Murakami - she is always held down). Still, those extra 4 points from GOE and also overly-buffered PCS are pretty unfair to the rest of the field, as it means she's nearly impossible to beat even though she doesn't actually have the technical content or choreographic difficultly/brilliance to really deserve it if someone else comes out and does better than her.

Although, there weren't actually any such "choreographically brilliant" Long Programs among the women for the 2012-2013 season that would have deserved to go much higher than Yu-Na in PCS. So it's sort of a fruitless gripe. But, at the same time, I think objectively accurate scoring is important. That's the whole point of CoP - quantifiableness.

The magnitude of the gap only matters if you can actually interpret it as the extra points needed to beat Yuna.
The fact is, TES, GOE and PCS are highly correlated and not independent. She only seems unbeatable if you think that 20 point gap means Kostner needs two quads to beat Yuna.

You and I both know that is not the case. Both Mao and Carolina would automatically get a big boost in PCS if they went clean. The same holds with Yuna, who gets a big drop in PCS when she makes mistakes (like 2011Worlds). One popped Flip and suddenly that 73 in PCS is reduced to 69. GOE gets adversely affected too.

Again, the gaps in scores cannot simply be interpreted the way you think it does. A program and performance is a whole in any case, so even in the objective or ideal sense of CoP technical elements and program components and quality cannot be scored independently.
 

cosmos

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Anyone can look at Yu-Na's 3S that got all +2's and compare it to this from Kostner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONViuMXi2nE&t=3m02s - which got less GOE, and you can see Kostner's is clearly better (it's HUGE). So, that's not accurate scoring.

Are you comparing different competitions under different judges? Nonsense. And, there is no such thing as accurate GOE scoring in CoP, in principle. There must be such thing as accurate decision by Tech panel though.

I don't see Kostner's is clearly better, either.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
It's a bit odd to hear people complain that Yuna's inflated scores make her unbeatable when she's been beaten by a less than perfect Miki Ando (of all skaters). A mere triple Flip and a double-toe is the difference between her 128 points in 2011 Worlds and 148 points in 2013 Worlds. That's the real gap we're talking about.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
It's a bit odd to hear people complain that Yuna's inflated scores make her unbeatable when she's been beaten by a less than perfect Miki Ando (of all skaters). A mere triple Flip and a double-toe is the difference between her 128 points in 2011 Worlds and 148 points in 2013 Worlds. That's the real gap we're talking about.

Certainly not. There are always other factors at play. Maybe on paper, that's what it suggests, but it's never that simple.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Certainly not. There are always other factors at play. Maybe on paper, that's what it suggests, but it's never that simple.

Not sure what you mean? The difference technically was a mere triple flip and double toe-loop between those two performances. My point was, that 20-point gap between her 2011 FS score and 2013 FS score was certainly NOT two quads (base value of two quad toes). She only needed a clean skate and her PCS and GOE would have filled in the rest.

My other point was that other skaters can get the same boost. A clean triple Axel from Mao goes a long way towards boosting her GOE and PCS. And can you imagine how high Kostner's PCS would be if she had a clean Free? :eek:
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
A program and performance is a whole in any case, so even in the objective or ideal sense of CoP technical elements and program components and quality cannot be scored independently.

I agree with this. It's like you're getting blown away by a hurricane, clinging to the last spindly little palm tree of objectivity. By the time you get to the triple Salchow, all she has to do is not fall down and you've got to give her a +2. Your will is not your own. :)
 

Krislite

Medalist
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Sep 22, 2010
5-triple free skate scores by Yuna Kim:

2009 TEB - 133.95 (skipped 3Flip)
2009 Worlds - 131.59 (popped 3Salchow)
2010 Worlds - 130.49 (fall on 3Salchow)
2011 Worlds - 128.59 (popped 3Flip)
Average: 131 +/- 3 points

vs. 6-triple clean free skate scores:
2010 Olympics - 150.06
2013 Korean Nats - 144.80
2013 Worlds - 148.34
Average: 148 +/- 3 points

Pretty consistent results despite the differences in rules and time frames. Notice how an extra triple and a clean performance goes a long way to boosting the scores? And I wouldn't say it's wrong either. I think it's quite right that cleanliness should count for a lot. Yuna gets a pretty steep 17 to 20 point penalty for missing just one triple in her program.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
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Feb 24, 2012
I am sure it has been said before but Yunas real strength is she has no weakness. Musically she is strong. Jumpwiseh she has wonderful flow and consistency. Spins are nice. She has a great personality that shows up on the ice. She is a complete skater that is her strength.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
My other point was that other skaters can get the same boost. A clean triple Axel from Mao goes a long way towards boosting her GOE and PCS. And can you imagine how high Kostner's PCS would be if she had a clean Free? :eek:

Yes, she'll beat Yuna in PCS
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
In my opinion it is the consistency, especially on jumps, which is the most important and the speed, which helps her to get high GOE. Her programs are also well choreographed, even they are not out of this world in terms of choreography or originality.
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
Country
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Her 3-lutz-3-toe. If Yu Na couldn't pull off that 3-3 so beautifully time and time again, she would be in the mix of top skaters but would not be so far ahead of her rivals. The rest of her skating is good but her 3-3 is really her calling card in my opinion.
 

RABID

Final Flight
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Mar 17, 2013
I am sure it has been said before but Yunas real strength is she has no weakness. Musically she is strong. Jumpwiseh she has wonderful flow and consistency. Spins are nice. She has a great personality that shows up on the ice. She is a complete skater that is her strength.
Also, Yu-Na rides the music. Recall her free program at the 2009 worlds when she skated to the music, Scheherazade . She was primed for a beautiful CLEAN skate but flubbed an easy double. Why? The music was beautiful and she was skating free and beautiful when all of a sudden the music took a dissonant turn and immediately you could see she was caught off guard. And that is my point; unlike a lot of other skaters I believe she relies on the music to inform her skating, to ride it like a surfer rides a wave, so much so that when the Scheherazade piece made an abrupt dissonant turn it caused her to to flub an easy jump. Her lapse of concentration was really a lapse of MUSICAL concentration. That is the downside. The upside....
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I'm not generally the one to go to for any technical insights, but even I notice that YuNa's jumps cover a huge amount of ice--they have distance as well as height. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. Of course it's not the only thing I value in her skating, but it's definitely one of the strongest factors in her success. Like Midori Ito, another phenomenon, YuNa is a woman ahead of her time in some ways.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The music was beautiful and she was skating free and beautiful when all of a sudden the music took a dissonant turn and immediately you could see she was caught off guard.

I doubt she was caught off guard by a change in the music, considering she would have been practicing to the same recording several times a day for months before that performance.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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What Rabid says makes sense (I won't presume to say that's exactly what happened to Yu-Na). Your mind goes different places in competition. When you are feeling really good about a performance and are "into" it and then a hard transition comes up, it can throw you off no matter how much you've practiced.
 

guanchi

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
I think it was the placement of that triple salchow in the program which threw her off- it comes less than 4 seconds after that long spiral sequence, there is almost no setup to it. Her legs must've been burning and fatigued and she just missed it.
 

guanchi

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Another aspect of yuna's skating is her use of the rink- she uses every bit of it to get as much speed as she can. In order to get speed, she gets really close to the boards, carving a big turn on the ice. It almost looks like a racer's line, where you don't stay in the middle of the road to get speed, you actually lose speed that way. You need to often hug the very edge of the road in the turn to accelerate out of it into the straights. So the impression I get watching her is that she's covering a very big part of the rink very quickly (of course it helps her into her big jumps- the lutz and flip).
 
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