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Thread: What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean

  1. #316
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    Lacking originality, yes, Carolina's Boléro borrowed directly from Maurice Béjart and Mao's safey boring Swan Lake.

  2. #317
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    To me, it is interesting that all the commentators, not to mention other skaters, coaches, etc., rave about Kim's performance like it was the most astonishing free skate in the history of skating -- or at least since the CoP began.

    Why? Because she skated welll -- a forgotten concept for the last decade. She didn't fall down. She didn't stumble, she skated fast, she showed good flowing edges. Kim did what she said she was going to do. If she said she was going to do a triple Lutz, she did a triple Lutz, not a 2-and-a-half flutz. No wonder she got scores off the chart.

    Little choreographic embellishments? Emotional connection to the music? Skaters can worry about that after they take care of business. Kim took care of business. When an athlete knows why she is out there and takes care of business, that's a beautiful thing. I have re-watched that performance 100 times.

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, it is interesting that all the commentators, not to mention other skaters, coaches, etc., rave about Kim's performance like it was the most astonishing free skate in the history of skating -- or at least since the CoP began.

    Why? Because she skated welll -- a forgotten concept for the last decade. She didn't fall down. She didn't stumble, she skated fast, she showed good flowing edges. Kim did what she said she was going to do. If she said she was going to do a triple Lutz, she did a triple Lutz, not a 2-and-a-half flutz. No wonder she got scores off the chart.

    Little choreographic embellishments? Emotional connection to the music? Skaters can worry about that after they take care of business. Kim took care of business. When an athlete knows why she is out there and takes care of business, that's a beautiful thing. I have re-watched that performance 100 times.
    I like that performance too actually. It's not my favorite program (I agree with many, Yuna's best choreographic work was in the 2009 (Dance Macabre/Scheherazade) and 2010 (Bond/Gershwin)), but the performance for Les Mis was much more from the heart that I think people give her credit for.

    I think Yuna came with the idea she wasn't doing this for herself. As she noted in her post-skate interview, she did this for the young skaters. She did this so two of those young skaters could join her in Sochi.

    Sure it wasn't the pressure of the Olympic gold, but it was the pressure of honoring her country. In Korea, pride and dignity are very important to its people. And I think the pride Yuna felt in getting those two extra spots was very much on her mind. She did her best not just for hersel but for others.

    And I think the people in the audience could sense that. And I could sense it too...

  4. #319
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    No, sweetheart. That is where you are entirely wrong. PChan in his career too had wins that were not questioned, while his abnormal score rose a red flag almost immediately after Vancouver, if not earlier. Then it got escalated, judges kept giving him astronomic score, even with multiple falls, because they couldn't afford to admit that before that they had been doing something wrong, so, they just kept overscoring him. All this ended up with boo-ing in Nice and then the second his fake win in a row in Ontarian London. I noticed how no one from Yuna fandom failed to answer my question. I repeat- no one. Obviously because they have nothing constructive to say. Take the real score of Yuna at Worlds-2013, look at the real protocols with real mistakes that Mao and Caro did. And now tell me, if the hadn't made those mistakes and got their stuff fully ratified, how would they possible reach the Yuna's inflated score? They wouldn't. Simple math. That's the point. Overscoring is always evil. It's unfair to other skaters and it kills the competition. This sport has been damaged enough by CoP. If Yuna and her fandom don't care, I find it perfectly understandable. Why should they care. [...]
    Are you ignoring all the given examples? There have been several posts in the previous pages showing how Mao and Carolina can match or exceed Yuna's scores from Worlds 2013. What in the world do you mean that Yuna is so over scored that nothing her rivals could do would beat her? That's absurd. The gap is huge only because they made so many costly mistakes. Your comparison of Yuna's wins vs. Patrick's just takes the cake, dear. No two skaters' victories could be so different in this day and age. Yuna's wins command respect, while Patrick's gets showered with contempt. In any case, since you're so obviously trolling us and disregarding facts, I'm done with this.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    whether she won by 5 points or 25 didn't matter
    That's why fs can't attrack new fans. If even fans say that 20 points difference doesn't matter, why anyone outside of fs should take this sport seriously. Tell me please, why do we have Code of Points with all the criteria written if points in fact don't matter. They gave her inflated score for "comeback" you are saying? Where is such criteria in ISU books? For someone who has been around fs for sometime I expected more serious approach to judiging system with all the issues on the table. And more repectful to skaters. They basically sent Caro, Mao and others the message: no matter how clean you skate, you won't be able to reach the score we will give to clean Yuna.
    Quote Originally Posted by bara1968 View Post
    Now I am curious. let's talk, WHY do you think that Asada cannot score higher than 148+ no matter what?
    Where did I say that? I didn't. It's your interpretation or better say your twist of someone else's words in the way you find comfortable for you. How very typical from yunafandom. I have been talking about the real score of Yuna at Worlds and the real mistakes that Caro and Mao did there. And about the fact that they wouldn't be able to reach Yuna's inflated score even if they hadn't made those mistakes, based on simple math. The only 'reply' that your buddies could produce is to go to the hypothetical score from a fanatsy land and not to talk about the score at Worlds-2013 at all. Cheat again.
    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    she attacked jaylee for no other reason..
    If you were telling the truth, then that Master's posts would be still on the borad. But they got deleted by Mathman. Lying is always bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    hahah actually.... if your read my post on #142, the points I gave her, and the GOEs were from Yuna's or Carolina's elements. So why bother do it twice when I can add the similar scores onto Mao's elements instead? Not gonna lie, I did round up some scores, but that shouldn't add up to 3+ points. So the hypothetical score I gave Mao, 239.92-3 = 236.92. Oh Fine, I'll even subtract few GOEs from her 3A so what -3(1.5 each from SP & LP) points? 236.92-3 = 233.92.
    Of course I did read your post #142. That's why I didn't take it seriously. You were not just cheating with GOE, you also "rounded up" PCS as well. Basically you went to a fantasy land of a hypothetical skating because you couldn't deal with the real skating and the score Yuna got at Worlds 2013. Once again- take the real score from the real event that Yuna got, take the real mistakes that Caro and Mao did and now tell me how would thay have possible reached the Yuna's inflated score if they hadn't made those mistakes. Can you read protocols and see their mistakes? Obviously not. In FS Caro- one fall, << on 3S, single her Loop; Mao- edge call, two <, -GOE on 3A. Do you need their SP as well? No fantasy land with hypothetical skating if you please this time. Only the real answer. I you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Are you ignoring all the given examples?
    I do. Invalid ones. Due to the reason I explained above^. Maybe you can give me the valid one?

  6. #321
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Are you ignoring all the given examples? There have been several posts in the previous pages showing how Mao and Carolina can match or exceed Yuna's scores from Worlds 2013. What in the world do you mean that Yuna is so over scored that nothing her rivals could do would beat her? That's absurd. The gap is huge only because they made so many costly mistakes. Your comparison of Yuna's wins vs. Patrick's just takes the cake, dear. No two skaters' victories could be so different in this day and age. Yuna's wins command respect, while Patrick's gets showered with contempt. In any case, since you're so obviously trolling us and disregarding facts, I'm done with this.
    this. i will keep and because yuna won another major title while kicking some as*.

    and i'm enjoying reading the hater's post because you can see the desperation and bitterness. so.. keep it coming.

  7. #322
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    You are incredibly annoying and making me keep repeating myself. This thread IS about hypotheical skating, and the fact that you are mentioning me to take the "real" score just tells me you are 1. So mad that Yuna beat Mao so you take it out on Yuna's fans or 2. You are just really dumb and cannot read. And please stop with your nonsense. Why are you even mentioning about real scores in a thread that's discussing about unreal, hypothetical score? If youre gonna complain about Yuna's 2013 so called "inflated" score. Make a thread that discusses that situation.

    Fortunately, i'm born with two eyes with a brain with other necessary body parts that functions so I can read this thread's title and give hypothetical results along with valid reasons why Mao can beat Yuna.
    Unfortunately for you, youre not getting that, and youre keep changing the subject and go off topic.

    And why don't you give a valid reason with numbers showing that Yuna will win no matter what. Because The majority of people who posted their opinions do not agree with you. So why don't you stop whining and convince so called "yunabots" about your reasoning? Or maybe you cant because I'm right and youre wrong, so instead of giving me the evidence, youre just complaining about the 2013 world results. Sorry that Mao didnt win. (Sorry not sorry)

    By the way, you conpletely ignored my second part on he post which is pretty darn inportant. The sad fact that Mao cannot skate a clean program. Now that's thr real world, and I agree with you on that part. Mao will never beat Yuna without skating to a CLEAN program. Now if that makes you mad, don't take it out onto Yuna fans. BLAME MAO ASADA.

    However,once again, this thread IS about hypothetical, non real scores thay may be given to skaters like Mao if she skate to a clean program. And i gave my numbers and reasons.

    I've gave my reasonable opinion with evidence on this thread, somehing that you failed to do so.

    And what makes you think Mao won't have Maoflation if she skates clean? Before you talk about Yunaflation, wait until Mao skates clean, and then blame Yunaflation.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    This thread IS about hypotheical skating, and the fact that you are mentioning me to take the "real" score just tells me you are 1. So mad that Yuna beat Mao so you take it out on Yuna's fans or 2. You are just really dumb and cannot read. And please stop with your nonsense. Why are you even mentioning about real scores in a thread that's discussing about unreal, hypothetical score? If youre gonna complain about Yuna's 2013 so called "inflated" score. Make a thread that discusses that situation.
    So, basically to put your rant in short, you are saying that you failed to prove that Caro and Mao would have reached Yuna's real inflated score that she got at real Worlds-2013 if they hadn't made those real mistakes. Therefore you chose the fantasy land with hypothetical skating as defence, flavoured with insults and personal attacks to the poster who provoked you to expose the flaw in the judging system at your own expense.

    The skaters skate in the real world, they got real medal, risk their real health and get real injuries. When the system cheats, doesnt't reward it fair and simply sends the message that no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins, then we get what we deserve to- declining popularity of the sport and laugh from other sports' fans. I am sure you are very pround of yourself. You should be.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Where did I say that? I didn't. It's your interpretation or better say your twist of someone else's words in the way you find comfortable for you. How very typical from yunafandom. I have been talking about the real score of Yuna at Worlds and the real mistakes that Caro and Mao did there. And about the fact that they wouldn't be able to reach Yuna's inflated score even if they hadn't made those mistakes, based on simple math. The only 'reply' that your buddies could produce is to go to the hypothetical score from a fanatsy land and not to talk about the score at Worlds-2013 at all. Cheat again.
    You are clearly contradicting yourself by saying Asada cannot reach Yuna score if she hadn't mistake( -> virtually not reaching 148+, which was Yuna's score) and also accusing me by saying you never said the same.

    Again, what's your "simple math"? How can possibly clean Asada not reach 148+ in LP with that layout? (This thread is all about assuming top 3 all go clean- so assume Asada goes clean and give her right base value + possibly positive(+1) GOE. She got +134 with 4 mistakes. Start from there. )

    What is TES potential Asada can possibly get when she goes clean in YOUR simple math?

    Clearly You are assuming that yourself is smart enough to read protocol, then prove it. What is the potential base value that Asada can get when she goes 3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2Lo+2Lo cleanly? If she goes clean, it is very reasonable to assume that she will get some positive GOE as she did before. So give her +1 GOE for each jump. What is her TES now? Or are you saying she does not deserve any GOE even if she goes clean?

    You are the one who is not providing ANY logical reasoning but trolling around with talking invalid argument over and over again.

  10. #325
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bara1968 View Post
    You are clearly contradicting yourself by saying Asada cannot reach Yuna score if she hadn't mistake( -> virtually not reaching 148+, which was Yuna's score) and also accusing me by saying you never said the same.

    Again, what's your "simple math"? How can possibly clean Asada not reach 148+ in LP with that layout? (This thread is all about assuming top 3 all go clean- so assume Asada goes clean and give her right base value + possibly positive(+1) GOE. She got +134 with 4 mistakes. Start from there. )

    What is TES potential Asada can possibly get when she goes clean in YOUR simple math?

    Clearly You are assuming that yourself is smart enough to read protocol, then prove it. What is the potential base value that Asada can get when she goes 3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2Lo+2Lo cleanly? If she goes clean, it is very reasonable to assume that she will get some positive GOE as she did before. So give her +1 GOE for each jump. What is her TES now? Or are you saying she does not deserve any GOE even if she goes clean?

    You are the one who is not providing ANY logical reasoning but trolling around with talking invalid argument over and over again
    .
    she's not gonna' answer your question because she doesn't know anything.

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    So, basically to put your rant in short, you are saying that you failed to prove that Caro and Mao would have reached Yuna's real inflated score that she got at real Worlds-2013 if they hadn't made those real mistakes. Therefore you chose the fantasy land with hypothetical skating as defence, flavoured with insults and personal attacks to the poster who provoked you to expose the flaw in the judging system at your own expense.

    The skaters skate in the real world, they got real medal, risk their real health and get real injuries. When the system cheats, doesnt't reward it fair and simply sends the message that no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins, then we get what we deserve to- declining popularity of the sport and laugh from other sports' fans. I am sure you are very pround of yourself. You should be.
    Oh my God. Have mercy on your hopeless soul. I've failed to give an evidence? More like you have for not GIVING an evidence backing your non logical theory. You don't realize how dumb you sound right now. And again, you have completely ignored my second half of the post. That shows that you know you are wrong, but you don't want to accept it therefore you just repeat yourself. And please, read the title of this thread. Skaters are skating hypothetically in this thread. You have eyes. Use them wisely

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    The skaters skate in the real world, they got real medal, risk their real health and get real injuries. When the system cheats, doesnt't reward it fair and simply sends the message that no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins, then we get what we deserve to- declining popularity of the sport and laugh from other sports' fans. I am sure you are very pround of yourself. You should be.

    Yunaflation may exist in your brain. But Maoflation absolutely in this real world.
    Check the below video clip of NHK Trophy 2012, get real and go blame Mao. Not Yuna.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMx3...embedded#at=14

    I promise you can see how it(↓) works.
    "no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins"

    And for your convenience,
    The reactions from the British TV commentator were 'Ridiculous.', 'Horrible' ,'Travesty of justice.' ...etc

  13. #328
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    I thought this thread will be great in that it has possibility to reveal other top lady skaters' greatness/ ambition/ possible score potential etc., rather than Yuna, but the result is...

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, it is interesting that all the commentators, not to mention other skaters, coaches, etc., rave about Kim's performance like it was the most astonishing free skate in the history of skating -- or at least since the CoP began.

    Why? Because she skated welll -- a forgotten concept for the last decade. She didn't fall down. She didn't stumble, she skated fast, she showed good flowing edges. Kim did what she said she was going to do. If she said she was going to do a triple Lutz, she did a triple Lutz, not a 2-and-a-half flutz. No wonder she got scores off the chart.

    Little choreographic embellishments? Emotional connection to the music? Skaters can worry about that after they take care of business. Kim took care of business. When an athlete knows why she is out there and takes care of business, that's a beautiful thing. I have re-watched that performance 100 times.
    Great post, Mathman! I totally agree with all you said!

  15. #330
    Miserere Nobis
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunaddiction View Post
    Yunaflation may exist in your brain. But Maoflation absolutely in this real world.
    Check the below video clip of NHK Trophy 2012, get real and go blame Mao. Not Yuna.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMx3...embedded#at=14

    I promise you can see how it(↓) works.
    "no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins"

    And for your convenience,
    The reactions from the British TV commentator were 'Ridiculous.', 'Horrible' ,'Travesty of justice.' ...etc
    Do we need to clarify that score inflation is NOT the fault of the skaters, but rather of the judging panel/COP? It's not like the skaters are bribing the judges to overlook their mistakes.

    Mao wasn't proud to win NHK, as the post-competition press conference showed -- she had to be pressed by the reporters to say something positive about her performance, and Akiko actually had to COMFORT her for winning a medal she didn't feel she deserved.

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