What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean | Page 17 | Golden Skate

What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Are you ignoring all the given examples? There have been several posts in the previous pages showing how Mao and Carolina can match or exceed Yuna's scores from Worlds 2013. What in the world do you mean that Yuna is so over scored that nothing her rivals could do would beat her? That's absurd. The gap is huge only because they made so many costly mistakes. Your comparison of Yuna's wins vs. Patrick's just takes the cake, dear. No two skaters' victories could be so different in this day and age. Yuna's wins command respect, while Patrick's gets showered with contempt. In any case, since you're so obviously trolling us and disregarding facts, I'm done with this.

this. i will keep :laugh: and :laugh: because yuna won another major title while kicking some as*.

and i'm enjoying reading the hater's post because you can see the desperation and bitterness. so.. keep it coming. :laugh:
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
You are incredibly annoying and making me keep repeating myself. This thread IS about hypotheical skating, and the fact that you are mentioning me to take the "real" score just tells me you are 1. So mad that Yuna beat Mao so you take it out on Yuna's fans or 2. You are just really dumb and cannot read. And please stop with your nonsense. Why are you even mentioning about real scores in a thread that's discussing about unreal, hypothetical score? If youre gonna complain about Yuna's 2013 so called "inflated" score. Make a thread that discusses that situation.

Fortunately, i'm born with two eyes with a brain with other necessary body parts that functions so I can read this thread's title and give hypothetical results along with valid reasons why Mao can beat Yuna.
Unfortunately for you, youre not getting that, and youre keep changing the subject and go off topic.

And why don't you give a valid reason with numbers showing that Yuna will win no matter what. Because The majority of people who posted their opinions do not agree with you. So why don't you stop whining and convince so called "Yuna fans" about your reasoning? Or maybe you cant because I'm right and youre wrong, so instead of giving me the evidence, youre just complaining about the 2013 world results. Sorry that Mao didnt win. (Sorry not sorry)

By the way, you conpletely ignored my second part on he post which is pretty darn inportant. The sad fact that Mao cannot skate a clean program. Now that's thr real world, and I agree with you on that part. Mao will never beat Yuna without skating to a CLEAN program. Now if that makes you mad, don't take it out onto Yuna fans. BLAME MAO ASADA.

However,once again, this thread IS about hypothetical, non real scores thay may be given to skaters like Mao if she skate to a clean program. And i gave my numbers and reasons.

I've gave my reasonable opinion with evidence on this thread, somehing that you failed to do so.

And what makes you think Mao won't have Maoflation if she skates clean? Before you talk about Yunaflation, wait until Mao skates clean, and then blame Yunaflation.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
This thread IS about hypotheical skating, and the fact that you are mentioning me to take the "real" score just tells me you are 1. So mad that Yuna beat Mao so you take it out on Yuna's fans or 2. You are just really dumb and cannot read. And please stop with your nonsense. Why are you even mentioning about real scores in a thread that's discussing about unreal, hypothetical score? If youre gonna complain about Yuna's 2013 so called "inflated" score. Make a thread that discusses that situation.
So, basically to put your rant in short, you are saying that you failed to prove that Caro and Mao would have reached Yuna's real inflated score that she got at real Worlds-2013 if they hadn't made those real mistakes. Therefore you chose the fantasy land with hypothetical skating as defence, flavoured with insults and personal attacks to the poster who provoked you to expose the flaw in the judging system at your own expense. :laugh:

The skaters skate in the real world, they got real medal, risk their real health and get real injuries. When the system cheats, doesnt't reward it fair and simply sends the message that no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins, then we get what we deserve to- declining popularity of the sport and laugh from other sports' fans. I am sure you are very pround of yourself. You should be. :biggrin:
 

bara1968

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Where did I say that? I didn't. It's your interpretation or better say your twist of someone else's words in the way you find comfortable for you. How very typical from yunafandom. I have been talking about the real score of Yuna at Worlds and the real mistakes that Caro and Mao did there. And about the fact that they wouldn't be able to reach Yuna's inflated score even if they hadn't made those mistakes, based on simple math. The only 'reply' that your buddies could produce is to go to the hypothetical score from a fanatsy land and not to talk about the score at Worlds-2013 at all. Cheat again.

You are clearly contradicting yourself by saying Asada cannot reach Yuna score if she hadn't mistake( -> virtually not reaching 148+, which was Yuna's score) and also accusing me by saying you never said the same.

Again, what's your "simple math"? How can possibly clean Asada not reach 148+ in LP with that layout? (This thread is all about assuming top 3 all go clean- so assume Asada goes clean and give her right base value + possibly positive(+1) GOE. She got +134 with 4 mistakes. Start from there. )

What is TES potential Asada can possibly get when she goes clean in YOUR simple math?

Clearly You are assuming that yourself is smart enough to read protocol, then prove it. What is the potential base value that Asada can get when she goes 3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2Lo+2Lo cleanly? If she goes clean, it is very reasonable to assume that she will get some positive GOE as she did before. So give her +1 GOE for each jump. What is her TES now? Or are you saying she does not deserve any GOE even if she goes clean?

You are the one who is not providing ANY logical reasoning but trolling around with talking invalid argument over and over again.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
You are clearly contradicting yourself by saying Asada cannot reach Yuna score if she hadn't mistake( -> virtually not reaching 148+, which was Yuna's score) and also accusing me by saying you never said the same.

Again, what's your "simple math"? How can possibly clean Asada not reach 148+ in LP with that layout? (This thread is all about assuming top 3 all go clean- so assume Asada goes clean and give her right base value + possibly positive(+1) GOE. She got +134 with 4 mistakes. Start from there. )

What is TES potential Asada can possibly get when she goes clean in YOUR simple math?

Clearly You are assuming that yourself is smart enough to read protocol, then prove it. What is the potential base value that Asada can get when she goes 3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2Lo+2Lo cleanly? If she goes clean, it is very reasonable to assume that she will get some positive GOE as she did before. So give her +1 GOE for each jump. What is her TES now? Or are you saying she does not deserve any GOE even if she goes clean?

You are the one who is not providing ANY logical reasoning but trolling around with talking invalid argument over and over again
.

she's not gonna' answer your question because she doesn't know anything.
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
So, basically to put your rant in short, you are saying that you failed to prove that Caro and Mao would have reached Yuna's real inflated score that she got at real Worlds-2013 if they hadn't made those real mistakes. Therefore you chose the fantasy land with hypothetical skating as defence, flavoured with insults and personal attacks to the poster who provoked you to expose the flaw in the judging system at your own expense. :laugh:

The skaters skate in the real world, they got real medal, risk their real health and get real injuries. When the system cheats, doesnt't reward it fair and simply sends the message that no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins, then we get what we deserve to- declining popularity of the sport and laugh from other sports' fans. I am sure you are very pround of yourself. You should be. :biggrin:

Oh my God. Have mercy on your hopeless soul. I've failed to give an evidence? More like you have for not GIVING an evidence backing your non logical theory. You don't realize how dumb you sound right now. And again, you have completely ignored my second half of the post. That shows that you know you are wrong, but you don't want to accept it therefore you just repeat yourself. And please, read the title of this thread. Skaters are skating hypothetically in this thread. You have eyes. Use them wisely
 

yunaddiction

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
The skaters skate in the real world, they got real medal, risk their real health and get real injuries. When the system cheats, doesnt't reward it fair and simply sends the message that no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins, then we get what we deserve to- declining popularity of the sport and laugh from other sports' fans. I am sure you are very pround of yourself. You should be. :biggrin:


Yunaflation may exist in your brain. But Maoflation absolutely in this real world.
Check the below video clip of NHK Trophy 2012, get real and go blame Mao. Not Yuna.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMx3GIYKIY&feature=player_embedded#at=14

I promise you can see how it(↓) works.
"no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins"

And for your convenience,
The reactions from the British TV commentator were 'Ridiculous.', 'Horrible' ,'Travesty of justice.' ...etc
 

bara1968

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
I thought this thread will be great in that it has possibility to reveal other top lady skaters' greatness/ ambition/ possible score potential etc., rather than Yuna, but the result is...:cry:
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
To me, it is interesting that all the commentators, not to mention other skaters, coaches, etc., rave about Kim's performance like it was the most astonishing free skate in the history of skating -- or at least since the CoP began.

Why? Because she skated welll -- a forgotten concept for the last decade. She didn't fall down. She didn't stumble, she skated fast, she showed good flowing edges. Kim did what she said she was going to do. If she said she was going to do a triple Lutz, she did a triple Lutz, not a 2-and-a-half flutz. No wonder she got scores off the chart.

Little choreographic embellishments? Emotional connection to the music? Skaters can worry about that after they take care of business. Kim took care of business. When an athlete knows why she is out there and takes care of business, that's a beautiful thing. I have re-watched that performance 100 times. :love:

Great post, Mathman! I totally agree with all you said!
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Yunaflation may exist in your brain. But Maoflation absolutely in this real world.
Check the below video clip of NHK Trophy 2012, get real and go blame Mao. Not Yuna.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMx3GIYKIY&feature=player_embedded#at=14

I promise you can see how it(↓) works.
"no matter how you skate, we will make our pet wins"

And for your convenience,
The reactions from the British TV commentator were 'Ridiculous.', 'Horrible' ,'Travesty of justice.' ...etc

Do we need to clarify that score inflation is NOT the fault of the skaters, but rather of the judging panel/COP? It's not like the skaters are bribing the judges to overlook their mistakes.

Mao wasn't proud to win NHK, as the post-competition press conference showed -- she had to be pressed by the reporters to say something positive about her performance, and Akiko actually had to COMFORT her for winning a medal she didn't feel she deserved.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
^^Agreed.

I know people hate on skaters when it comes to results but the skaters actually have NOTHING to do with the scores they receive. They don't score themselves. They go out and skate and the rest is up to the people on the panel. Due to reputation/politics certain skaters get a boost while others do not but, again, that's not something the skater has any control over. It's easy to point the finger at the skater but it's the judges and the judging system that is to blame...not the skater.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
that's true but she's attacking anyone who dare to say otherwise..and start generalizing that a fan is a bot..which is not even true.. :disapp:
Actually, I prefer Gracie Gold to ALL other Senior ladies right now but am open to people pointing out her deficiencies (has issues with going squeaky clean, crappy choreo last season, looks stiff at times) and would absolutely have happy piddles if she did skate clean at the Olympics and would hope the judges would too and give her gigantic scores. :) Of the three top ladies who would have to "give it away" to not be on the podium, I do like Kostner the best right now from her 2011 and 2012 season programs where she has definitely become Lori N's muse. I thought her Bolero program was mesmerizing. I respect Kim's and Asada's skating both and Kim was clearly the deserved winner. As I said, it wouldn't have mattered if she won by 1, 5, 22, or 50 points, she was the clear winner. Period.
 

TheCzar

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Do we need to clarify that score inflation is NOT the fault of the skaters, but rather of the judging panel/COP? It's not like the skaters are bribing the judges to overlook their mistakes.

Mao wasn't proud to win NHK, as the post-competition press conference showed -- she had to be pressed by the reporters to say something positive about her performance, and Akiko actually had to COMFORT her for winning a medal she didn't feel she deserved.

I would just like to say that I agree with this wholeheartedly. It is ridiculous how obtuse this thread has become, and resorting to blaming the skaters themselves and bashing each other- I'm relieved that this is nothing but an online forum. Some people on here make football hooligans look like Virgin Marys. Figure Skating is a subjective sport, and the fault (if there ever is one...oh hang on, wait. THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING WRONG) lies with the judges and everybody else behind the scenes.

What good does it do slandering skaters themselves? Does it actually make some of you -bots, -ubers, and whatnot feel better about yourselves vilifying these athletes who as far as I'm concerned, couldn't care less about debates like these because they are most probably working hard to give their best performances so that people like us, who can come off worse than the ISU judges would feel satisfied? It is issues like these that drive people away from any sport because frankly, it is a big turn off.

Now, off of my high horse, can we all please just go back to the original, hypothetical question? I could not emphasise that HYPOTHETICAL bit any more than most people have.

IMO, it would be an Asada, Kim, Kostner podium- which a close fight for gold for the first two. Asada winning gold because of her fantastical TES and Kim a close silver because of her genius PCS. Kostner shouldn't be far off, but I have a feeling that much like Vancouver, somehow, it'll turn into another Kim and Asada whatever.

Are there any moderators on this forum AT ALL? I have read far too many posts that wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. To those who are guilty, and you know who you are, STOP RUINING THE FUN OF THE ******* SPORT.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
she's not gonna' answer your question because she doesn't know anything.
Me not gonna answer? Come on. You don't believe in it yourself.
How can possibly clean Asada not reach 148+ in LP with that layout? (This thread is all about assuming top 3 all go clean- so assume Asada goes clean and give her right base value + possibly positive(+1) GOE. She got +134 with 4 mistakes. Start from there. )

Clearly You are assuming that yourself is smart enough to read protocol, then prove it. What is the potential base value that Asada can get when she goes 3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2Lo+2Lo cleanly? If she goes clean, it is very reasonable to assume that she will get some positive GOE as she did before. So give her +1 GOE for each jump. What is her TES now?

You are the one who is not providing ANY logical reasoning but trolling around with talking invalid argument over and over again.
Oh no, sweetheart. That is where you are entirely wrong. Trolling is your speed. You talk about the real score and the real protocols at Worlds regarding Yuna but you speak about the hypothetcal Mao's layout that wasn't there at all. Of course you can click on the link http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf and see the layout. Yet, you type the list of jumps that is not on the protocol and then you "tailor" it up to the real protocol's score. That's dumb cheat as type of trolling from Yuna fans, which I got used to. And surely you know how to use math or at least the calculator. Or maybe not indeed. Not that I am here for the charity of basic schooling. But why not have a mercy on your hopeless soul as someone else put it :laugh:.
The difference between Yuna's score and Mao's score in FS is 13.97. So, let's follow your "advice" and start from 134.37 with 4 mistakes. Imagine that those 4 mistakes never happened and add +1 GOE for each jump. Total difference to add to her TES is 10.19 (3A: 9.50, difference to add: 3.14; 3F: 6.0, difference to add 3.50; 3Z: 6.7, difference to add 1.4; 3F+2Lo+2Lo=5.3+1.8+1.8=8.9*1.1=9.79+1.3 GOE=11.09, difference to add: 2.15). She still wouldn't have been able to reach Yuna's inflated score even if she hadn't made those mistakes.
And please, read the title of this thread. Skaters are skating hypothetically in this thread. You have eyes. Use them wisely
I am sure OP won't mind at all if you answer my question here. Why do you need a special thread for that? Unless you have nothing to say. :p
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Are there any moderators on this forum AT ALL? I have read far too many posts that wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else. To those who are guilty, and you know who you are, STOP RUINING THE FUN OF THE ******* SPORT.

Just want to stick up for the diligent GS mods. :bow:
From my vantage point, I think that they are absolutely committed to wrangling everything on GS -- a job much easier said than done. A pro bono labor of love, no less.

Unfortunately, this thread must be creating a huge (and apparently never-ending) amount of work for them.
The ugly tone of some posts is disheartening, but I have no doubt that the mods are doing their best to enforce the GS guidelines, and that they always take all violations seriously.
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I am sure OP won't mind at all if you answer my question here. Why do you need a special thread for that? Unless you have nothing to say. :p

Again, you have ignored my post entirely, and gave another ridiculous excuse. You know what that tells me? That YOU have nothing to say because you know you're wrong so decides to goof off even more. Like I said earlier, use your eyes wisely (or your brain:sarcasm:). And what? the OP won't mind? sure he won't, but you are you commenting on a thread where posters post about non-realistic situation, and you're in your own island complaining.

Are you gonna complain more?
 

yunaddiction

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Do we need to clarify that score inflation is NOT the fault of the skaters, but rather of the judging panel/COP? It's not like the skaters are bribing the judges to overlook their mistakes.

Mao wasn't proud to win NHK, as the post-competition press conference showed -- she had to be pressed by the reporters to say something positive about her performance, and Akiko actually had to COMFORT her for winning a medal she didn't feel she deserved.

I do not criticize Mao and I don't need to at all.
I just informed a case of 'travesty of justice' last season to 'let's talk' who should be interested in it.

if he/she is really concern about the score inflation for a specific skater, he/she'd better focus on this case above all.
The unreasonably high score even the skater was embarrassed at.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I want Gracie Gold to be 4th because I don't want her to take anything from the top 3 who are my favorite (some are more than the others)
Of the rest, I like Akiko the most, but I don't think she will make anything out of a 4th place finish. Gracie needs to be 4th because the top 3 will cross the bridge, and she can become #1. Akiko can be 5th.
Ashley can be 6th.

Korpi can be 7th. Unless Hicks is competing, then I want her to be 8th. The rest of them, I don't care for.
 

bara1968

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
let`s talk;747340 Oh no said:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf[/url] and see the layout. Yet, you type the list of jumps that is not on the protocol and then you "tailor" it up to the real protocol's score. That's dumb cheat as type of trolling from Yuna fans, which I got used to. And surely you know how to use math or at least the calculator. Or maybe not indeed. Not that I am here for the charity of basic schooling. But why not have a mercy on your hopeless soul as someone else put it :laugh:.
The difference between Yuna's score and Mao's score in FS is 13.97. So, let's follow your "advice" and start from 134.37 with 4 mistakes. Imagine that those 4 mistakes never happened and add +1 GOE for each jump. Total difference to add to her TES is 10.19 (3A: 9.50, difference to add: 3.14; 3F: 6.0, difference to add 3.50; 3Z: 6.7, difference to add 1.4; 3F+2Lo+2Lo=5.3+1.8+1.8=8.9*1.1=9.79+1.3 GOE=11.09, difference to add: 2.15). She still wouldn't have been able to reach Yuna's inflated score even if she hadn't made those mistakes.

Asada was planning to do 3F+3Lo, 3Lo in Lp. (That is why people keep saying she was planning 8-triple program). She just failed to even attempt to do so because of her unexpected sloppy landing in 3F, so she put 2Lo after planned solo 3Lo instead. Therefore by saying "Asada goes clean with her planned layout" it is also reasonable to assume that she goes for 3F+3Lo rather than 3Lo+2Lo. It is far from being "entirely wrong".

As I pointed out long before and as yourself verified here, even if we don't count 3F+3Lo in her Lp, her TES would easily reach more than +76. (65.96+10+alpha upto your choice of 3-3 or 3-2. With 3-3, it would be +79.), not to mention that it can be even higher if she gets more GOE. (Here only assumed +1 GOE.) Obviously bigger than 74.73, the TES Yuna got.

All she needs to break 148+ now is to get PCS somewhere between 69-72. (69 in the case that she goes for 3-3, 72 for 3-2). She got 68.41 iin last Worlds. Expecting PCS is hard due to lack of data, since Asada has never been even remotely clean with this difficult tech layout. But it is very likely that Asada will get higher PCS when she goes clean, at least P/E will rightfully increase. I bet she will be able to break +70 in PCS if she goes clean with the same scoring system you keep calling "corrupted".

If you don't agree on increase of PCS, then let's simply settle down to "agree to disagree". And stop mocking people around. It's pathetic.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
She still wouldn't have been able to reach Yuna's inflated score even if she hadn't made those mistakes.

I think this analysis is incomplete. If Mao had skated cleanly her PCSs would also have gone through the roof, just like Yuna's did with a clean skate. With a clean technical performance the judges would have been able to reward Asada's musicality and grace with marks in the nines across the board. Maybe the CoP is not supposed to work this way, but I would bet anything that if Mao skated a technically superior program without error the judges would be very pleased to shower her with PCS points.

The other thing is, with respect to Mao's jump layout "skating her intended program cleanly" means that she rotated and landed the 3F well enough to tack on the intended 3L, so that's another 5.1 points on the tech side. That is, the < on the flip cost her 8 points or so.

Edited to add: I wrote this before I saw the post of Bara1968. I agree with Bara1968's analysis, and I also thank Bara1968 for her series of cool-headed posts a couple of pages ago on this thread.
 
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