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Thread: What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    What about GOE? I always thought Kim had a advantage when it came to the GOE of her cleanly landed jumps, or at least some of them.
    It's being assumed that Asada will have the highest GOE due to her ambitious technical layouts (at least one 3A, several more triples in combination). However, in a typical competition where perfection is rare, Kim usually receives the highest TES because she can execute difficult content cleanly.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    What about GOE? I always thought Kim had a advantage when it came to the GOE of her cleanly landed jumps, or at least some of them.
    Depends on the jump.

    Carolina and Mao can get more GOE than Yuna for Steps and Spirals.

  3. #18
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    Mao won't skate clean, sorry. I know this may sound harsh but it's true. This year's 4CCs performances are as good as she can get.

    There is a hypothetical situation Carolina skating both her short and free, in terms of individual elements. She has proven she can nail elements with good technique. However, things go different if the whole skate is involved. The first half of Boléro is basically her skating through from element to element, pulling out big tricks afraid of messing up the whole thing. She does not fully take control of her whole performance in the way Yuna does.

    Still, I would give the benefit of the doubt to Carolina, however slim I think her chances of skating both segments clean.

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    I consider that Mao skating clean is easier to happen than Caro.

  5. #20
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mateusp1 View Post
    Depends on the jump.

    Carolina and Mao can get more GOE than Yuna for Steps and Spirals.
    oh, for sure. But I did think that getting GOE on the most difficult jumps (3lutz combo for instance) would give you a bigger advantage than bit GOEs on steps and spiral and even spins. This is hardly an area where I'm an expert, but I'm surprised to hear that it's being assumed that Asada would have the highest GOE. I know she tries the difficult jumps - I love her for it (though I love her more for her exquisite style) _ but I didn't think she really had big jumps and I though she had edge/rotation problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    oh, for sure. But I did think that getting GOE on the most difficult jumps (3lutz combo for instance) would give you a bigger advantage than bit GOEs on steps and spiral and even spins. This is hardly an area where I'm an expert, but I'm surprised to hear that it's being assumed that Asada would have the highest GOE. I know she tries the difficult jumps - I love her for it (though I love her more for her exquisite style) _ but I didn't think she really had big jumps and I though she had edge/rotation problems.
    I think that we should not see the elements isolated. We have to see base value and the potential to get high GOE.

    Now, Mao has the highest base value, Carolina comes second and Yuna comes third.

    But, Yuna can get more goe than both.

    One thing that Yuna fans have been trying to make happen is that she repeat the flip, instead of the salchow. This would make her have two 3Lz and two 3F. But, the difference between the flip and the salchow is 1,1 point.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    Mao won't skate clean, sorry. I know this may sound harsh but it's true. This year's 4CCs performances are as good as she can get.

    There is a hypothetical situation Carolina skating both her short and free, in terms of individual elements. She has proven she can nail elements with good technique. However, things go different if the whole skate is involved. The first half of Boléro is basically her skating through from element to element, pulling out big tricks afraid of messing up the whole thing. She does not fully take control of her whole performance in the way Yuna does.

    Still, I would give the benefit of the doubt to Carolina, however slim I think her chances of skating both segments clean.
    I think possibility that can have two clean programs would be yuna>mao>caro
    Because I don't remember Caro has perfect clean LP...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mateusp1 View Post
    I think that we should not see the elements isolated. We have to see base value and the potential to get high GOE.

    Now, Mao has the highest base value, Carolina comes second and Yuna comes third.

    But, Yuna can get more goe than both.

    One thing that Yuna fans have been trying to make happen is that she repeat the flip, instead of the salchow. This would make her have two 3Lz and two 3F. But, the difference between the flip and the salchow is 1,1 point.
    No. In terms of base value, Mao is the highest, Yuna is second, Carolina is third

    In 2013 WC, mao asada's planned base value was 73, yuna's was 61, carolina's was 58

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    This thing about making a huge big combo can help. But, not in all cases.


    For example, I saw somewhere that some people wanted Agnes to try a 3Lz+3T in the SP. For the solo jump, it would have to be the salchow, since Agnes "lips" and she does not have the loop. 3Lz+3T and 3S would give 0,1 more of base value than 3T+3T and 3Lz. Also, Agnes can get more GOE for her 3T+3T and 3Lz than for her 3S. In her case, changing the SP layout would not help.

    The same goes for Caro. Some people were trying to make her perform a solo Flip in the SP. The difference for flip and the loop is 0,2. Also, the solo flip would require steps before and Carolina's flip is telegraphed. So, this also would not work. A change that, in my point of view, would work for Caro is change the 3T+3T for a 3F+3T, considering that the difference between both is 1,2 point(this can mean a lot in the SP), Caro's flip is one of her best jumps and she also does not make transitions before her SP's combo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by venlac View Post
    In terms of base value, Mao is the highest, Yuna is second, Carolina is third
    Yuna:

    3Lz+3T - 10,1
    3F - 5,3
    FCCoSp4 - 3,5
    3S - 4,2
    StSq4 - 3,9
    3Lz x - 6,6
    2A+2T+2Lo x - 7,04
    3S+2T x - 6,05
    LSp3 - 2,4
    ChSq1 - 2,0
    2A x - 3,63
    CCoSp4 - 3,5

    Total Base Value = 58,22

    Carolina:

    3Lz - 6,0
    2A - 3,3
    3F+3T - 9,4
    FCCoSp4 - 3,5
    FCSp4 - 3,2
    3Lo x - 5,61
    3T+2T x - 5,94
    3S+2T+2Lo x - 8,03
    CCoSp4 - 3,5
    StSq4 - 3,9
    ChSq1 - 2,0
    3S x - 4,62

    Total Base Value: 59,0

    As you can see, Carolina's BV is higher than Yuna's.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by venlac View Post
    In terms of base value, Mao is the highest, Yuna is second, Carolina is third

    In 2013 WC, mao asada's planned base value was 73, yuna's was 61, carolina's was 58
    You can also see here that Yuna executed everything she planned and her base value was 58,22. And Carolina was 59.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FS_Scores.pdf

  12. #27
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    You have to consider their respective short programs.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mateusp1 View Post
    Yuna:

    3Lz+3T - 10,1
    3F - 5,3
    FCCoSp4 - 3,5
    3S - 4,2
    StSq4 - 3,9
    3Lz x - 6,6
    2A+2T+2Lo x - 7,04
    3S+2T x - 6,05
    LSp3 - 2,4
    ChSq1 - 2,0
    2A x - 3,63
    CCoSp4 - 3,5

    Total Base Value = 58,22

    Carolina:

    3Lz - 6,0
    2A - 3,3
    3F+3T - 9,4
    FCCoSp4 - 3,5
    FCSp4 - 3,2
    3Lo x - 5,61
    3T+2T x - 5,94
    3S+2T+2Lo x - 8,03
    CCoSp4 - 3,5
    StSq4 - 3,9
    ChSq1 - 2,0
    3S x - 4,62

    Total Base Value: 59,0

    As you can see, Carolina's BV is higher than Yuna's.
    why you didn't included SP's base value?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    You have to consider their respective short programs.
    The SP and LP base value together will be more than 61 and 58.


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by venlac View Post
    I considered only jumps base value...

    by the way, why you didn't included SP's base value?

    I thought you are talking about the LP base value.

    Ans you also said the Yuna's base value for her LP was 61 and Carolina's was 58. And the numbers you said were not correct. Yuna's BV for the LP was 58,22 and Carolina's was 59.

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