The Return of Marina Anissina to Ice Dance | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The Return of Marina Anissina to Ice Dance

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
There isn't a lot of time for her to get into shape, learn two programs and the new rules and be ready for a Grand PRix even to get some exerience with COP. It is not like she and Gwendel have been performing lots together. Some of those holds and lifts would be deemed illegal probably too. We are a "GREEDY" bunch; she was lucky to get an OGM now let it go girl, save your money for your fake red hair dye. Seriously though she had her moment in the sun and this sounds like a publicity stunt or something. Some will say more power to her but it would serve her right if she gets a ridiculously low score because she didn't understand the new system. People have been skating for years learning the new system and to have her almost treat it with no regard almost warrants some karma. She was a great ice dancer; she had her turn. I will get ready for all the criticisms that she should do what she wants to do be free, be free to be the best again, people should decide their future etc. Still I just feel she had her "fortune" and she shouldn't push her luck.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
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What Anissina doesn't seem to understand is that CoP ice dance scoring is very different from 6.0 scoring. You just can't go out there and look elegant, you have to do twizzles (which were never A/P's strong point) and dance spins, as well as intricate footwork with specific moves. A 6.0-type program skated under CoP rules would likely have nearly all Level-1 elements. Even if A/P got high PCS scores, they would finish way down in the standings, even lower than Carron/Jones would have placed.

A/P were one of my favorite teams in the 6.0 era, but their time has passed. I'd rather remember them as they were, not struggling with the dance requirements of a new era.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
What Anissina doesn't seem to understand is that CoP ice dance scoring is very different from 6.0 scoring. You just can't go out there and look elegant, you have to do twizzles (which were never A/P's strong point) and dance spins, as well as intricate footwork with specific moves. A 6.0-type program skated under CoP rules would likely have nearly all Level-1 elements. Even if A/P got high PCS scores, they would finish way down in the standings, even lower than Carron/Jones would have placed.

A/P were one of my favorite teams in the 6.0 era, but their time has passed. I'd rather remember them as they were, not struggling with the dance requirements of a new era.

Exactly what I was getting at. THere was more story telling and you could get away with pretty level 1's now it is more technical with specific requirements unlike before.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
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France
It would be amazing if they just ignore the FD rules and skate a 6.0 program at the Olympics. They'd only have to do enough CoP stuff in the SD to make into that section of the competition. Then, when everyone sees how superior their choreography and interpretation is, it will be clear as day what needs to be fixed with CoP.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
But all of you are talking as if she's lived under a rock since she competed. Don't you think she's stayed fairly current with all the changes? I'm not saying she can skate fantastically to them but I would be very surprised if she isn't aware of them. I can't imagine though - even with Peizerat - that she and a partner could even approach the unity needed to compete on an international level. That just takes months and months and months of practice and she doesn't have months and months.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
There isn't a lot of time for her to get into shape, learn two programs and the new rules and be ready for a Grand PRix even to get some exerience with COP. It is not like she and Gwendel have been performing lots together. Some of those holds and lifts would be deemed illegal probably too. We are a "GREEDY" bunch; she was lucky to get an OGM now let it go girl, save your money for your fake red hair dye. Seriously though she had her moment in the sun and this sounds like a publicity stunt or something. Some will say more power to her but it would serve her right if she gets a ridiculously low score because she didn't understand the new system. People have been skating for years learning the new system and to have her almost treat it with no regard almost warrants some karma. She was a great ice dancer; she had her turn. I will get ready for all the criticisms that she should do what she wants to do be free, be free to be the best again, people should decide their future etc. Still I just feel she had her "fortune" and she shouldn't push her luck.

I thought this was a publicity joke too. I am very surprised that anyone, including Marina, would think she can do better than the current top 5. She barely won the OGM in 2002, beating L&A by one vote. She didn't even always win the Worlds during 6.0 when ice dancing was much simpler. A&P's twizzles and dance spins were painfully slow at the height of their youth and ability. She might have the Kerrs, who possibly have the fastest dance spins, and Lucinda Ruh teach her the spins, but it will not make them natural spinners in 3 months. She might excel in footwork and speed, as she always did, but can she do all the Kama Sutra lifts with multiple variations while her partner is in a cantilever position and others... at 37? The bar in ice dancing is so high right now. The toughest field in the history of ice dancing, because the top 5 or 6 teams have all produced programs far more difficult than the ones she performed.

What Anissina doesn't seem to understand is that CoP ice dance scoring is very different from 6.0 scoring. You just can't go out there and look elegant, you have to do twizzles (which were never A/P's strong point) and dance spins, as well as intricate footwork with specific moves. A 6.0-type program skated under CoP rules would likely have nearly all Level-1 elements. Even if A/P got high PCS scores, they would finish way down in the standings, even lower than Carron/Jones would have placed.

A/P were one of my favorite teams in the 6.0 era, but their time has passed. I'd rather remember them as they were, not struggling with the dance requirements of a new era.

Yes... precisely, well-said. Her comment that the bear can do tricks by endless repetition is the state of ice dancing now - How is skating from any era not practice and endless repetition? It is the same thing as when she competed - she practiced her programs repeatedly, except her programs' choreography was nowhere as tough as the choreography the current ice dancers are doing.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
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Harder choreography doesn't mean better choreography. Nor does it mean better performance or interpretation.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
It's hard to judge speed from analyzing videotapes, but today's premier dance couples FLY around the ice while achieving very difficult footwork and choreography.

She was terrific, but near full speed throughout a routine is a lot to ask even from athletes in their prime.

This is not to mention the issue of levels from a technical aspect.

I'm ALMOST certain this is a joke.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It would be amazing if they just ignore the FD rules and skate a 6.0 program at the Olympics. They'd only have to do enough CoP stuff in the SD to make into that section of the competition. Then, when everyone sees how superior their choreography and interpretation is, it will be clear as day what needs to be fixed with CoP.

Harder choreography doesn't mean better choreography. Nor does it mean better performance or interpretation.

Totally correct! People are acting like ice dance improved under COP!
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
She definitely should not ignore the rules because shemight get so few points. Yes choreo gets huge poitns but weknow there seems to be a relation with pcs and difficulty. AT last Chan tries the dificult stuff it is iffy if Anisnna and whoever she partners up would have the difficultylet alone the practice to be as one. She has not lived under a rock - how could she or that hair would be so ragedy anne red but she has not been skating at the level of the best and the magic, the consistency the knowing where your partner is takes time. EVen if Gwendel came back it takes time to get that rhythm of each other. They can only garner so many points for long hair lol.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
But all of you are talking as if she's lived under a rock since she competed. Don't you think she's stayed fairly current with all the changes? I'm not saying she can skate fantastically to them but I would be very surprised if she isn't aware of them. I can't imagine though - even with Peizerat - that she and a partner could even approach the unity needed to compete on an international level. That just takes months and months and months of practice and she doesn't have months and months.
Knowing the rules doesn't mean being able to perform what they require: I know perfectly what a set of twizzles is and how it (theoretically) works, but if I put my skates on, I can't do that. She's never done something like that, A/P twizzles when they competed where just sequences of double three turns, the same for the spin, she would have to learn how to spin fast, how to hold difficult positions etc. They're Olympic champions, yes, they're elite-level skaters but does she really think that she can learn such a high number of new things at 37 without having skated seriously for so long? This sounds more and more like a joke to me...
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
She definitely should not ignore the rules because shemight get so few points. Yes choreo gets huge poitns but weknow there seems to be a relation with pcs and difficulty. AT last Chan tries the dificult stuff it is iffy if Anisnna and whoever she partners up would have the difficultylet alone the practice to be as one. She has not lived under a rock - how could she or that hair would be so ragedy anne red but she has not been skating at the level of the best and the magic, the consistency the knowing where your partner is takes time. EVen if Gwendel came back it takes time to get that rhythm of each other. They can only garner so many points for long hair lol.

Hasn't Marina also been coaching? Of course, she is aware of COP system, but implementing it onto an actual program with content that requires top peak physical conditioning is another matter. Just speaking of it theoretically is hard enough, let alone ask a 37 year-old body to do it. Even in her 20s in her top form, the hardest programs she performed didn't require the same degree of difficulty as required now. It's one thing to be confident. It's another thing to be delusional and overconfident.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
But harder choreography gets more points in today's system.

Most points doesn't mean good or anything like that! Right now it is how much you can move nonstop and like Marina says repetition! Like do a lot of nonsense moves that have no relation to music or interpretation or artistic reflection! It's all non stop motion that seldom has anything to do with music that's being skated to!
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Most points doesn't mean good or anything like that! Right now it is how much you can move nonstop and like Marina says repetition! Like do a lot of nonsense moves that have no relation to music or interpretation or artistic reflection! It's all non stop motion that seldom has anything to do with music that's being skated to!

What's pleasing to you is purely subjective. If an element is visibly more intricate, it gets points- Backed up with highest PCS, you win.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
What's pleasing to you is purely subjective. If an element is visibly more intricate, it gets points- Backed up with highest PCS, you win.

Thats the system now! It doesn't mean it's good at all or in any way! That is what marina annissina was talking about. What margaglio talks about! What so many legends in ice dance talk about! Visible intricacy in lifts or spins or steps now means ice dance by doesn't mean great ice dance! Like with t/d in 1984 that's the pinnacle of dance. And it's not cop!
 
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