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Thread: Japan Open 2013 2014

  1. #16
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    No Yuzuru???
    Since skaters are going to show their programs, which are literally prepared for the Games, in front of int'l judges for the first time, I would have liked it more if those who are ALL eligible ones had got invited at this year's JO in the particular Olympic season...

  2. #17
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    It's a "made for TV" event, right?

    So they've probably limited the participants to fit into the time-slot.

    It sounds like this is essentially the Japanese equivalent of "Ice Wars" or something like that.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    No Yuzuru???
    Since skaters are going to show their programs, which are literally prepared for the Games, in front of int'l judges for the first time, I would have liked it more if those who are ALL eligible ones had got invited at this year's JO in the particular Olympic season...
    I think Hanyu will be resting, good choice to peak for the Olympics
    considering he suffered a lot of injuries last season

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Rochette? I know that she's competed there before, but please tell me that this means that she's coming back!
    according to a fan report in the Shen&Zhao ice show last week, Rochette said "maybe" when she was asked whether she would be back for the Olympic season. She also said that it would be challenging to have her LP ready and plan to show up in the Japan Open. So stay tuned!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    No Yuzuru???
    Since skaters are going to show their programs, which are literally prepared for the Games, in front of int'l judges for the first time, I would have liked it more if those who are ALL eligible ones had got invited at this year's JO in the particular Olympic season...
    Many Japanese fans already predicted long before it would be Takahashi and Kozuka simply because of the reason carignan mentioned.
    The reason why JSF chose Daisuke and Takahiko is very simple.

    1. The event is sponsored by a company which supports Daisuke. (Kinoshita Komuten)
    2. The event is promoted by IMG which Takahiko belongs to. (Mao too)
    Why Mao was not on the list in 2011 is she started relearning jumps from scratch in 2010-2011 season and her overall results were not good at all in that season (sometimes painful) and she also had disastrous performances in both 2009 and 2010 JO. Probably her team thought it was smarter to skip it.

    I agree with sky_fly20. I have a feeling Yuzuru is limitting shows and exposure to media to the minimum this off season.

  6. #21
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    Thanks everyone for explaining me it further! I understand why Dai Taka IN and Yuzu OUT from promotional/sponsership perspectives...

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I think Hanyu will be resting, good choice to peak for the Olympics
    considering he suffered a lot of injuries last season
    Yeah, you are right.
    I hope Dai can also skip JO this time for the same reason: to peak for the Olympics. His opening GP assignment is SA, the very first one out of six GP this season, and he is not that young, he needs to pace himself more carefully to prepare for the Nats. JO, SA, NHK, GPF (hopefully!) before Nats seem too much, I would fear.

  7. #22
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    At least JO is an international competition. The JSF has the say regardless of the organizers considerations. Since Fernandez is invited, there's no case that Hanyu had declined an offer due to Orser's conveniences . I think Hanyu was intentionally omitted in favor of Takahashi. The international judges don't treat Takahashi favorably when Hanyu is competing (like at NHK, 4CC). They just wanted to save face of former "Japan's ace". This is the last season for Takahashi. If he could skate well, the international judges would reward very generous scores (which is only possible in Japan) and make a good start of the season. There's no "worry" of Kozuka stealing the show from Takahashi.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paola D View Post
    Many Japanese fans already predicted long before it would be Takahashi and Kozuka simply because of the reason carignan mentioned.
    By "many Japanese fans" you mean whom exactly? You were walking around and keeping records? There are also those who say that for TV&JSF Dai is a cash cow who they want to milk as much as they can. That's why they make him work every event. While the youngest is the talent to treasure. There are also those who think that Hanyu didn't make the game JSF expected from him last season after all the investment they made in him. And, there are those, mostly Yuzu fans, who think of a weak boy who can't deal with the physical pressure and therefore he should skip all the events possible, which in fact make him look coward-ish, but they don't get it. My opinion is JSF simply want to keep him on a short financial leash, and by doing this- to control that school teacher's son better. That's why they never submit him in commercials events. Carigan's "reasons" have no merit. Because TV is interested in money only and JSF in money and medals.

    As for your reasons of Mao absent in 2011, they all fit to the reasons of Yuzu's absent in 2013. Be fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    Thanks everyone for explaining me it further! I understand why Dai Taka IN and Yuzu OUT from promotional/sponsership perspectives...
    ...
    I hope Dai can also skip JO this time for the same reason: to peak for the Olympics.
    You are kidding, right? Oh, hell, I should wait for the day to see deedee1's politically correct trolling. I get what you are saying. It is not fair that Dai has to work every event for TV and JSF. While the National Champion is relaxing in his garden and doing nothing. But from the Yuzu's point they are actually not doing him any favour. He is not gaining popularity by not showing up in fs events and he is not earning any cent. That's why I never get all his mummies' fans, as if they want him to stay a poor fragile boy, without big name or cash in his pocket.
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    The international judges don't treat Takahashi favorably when Hanyu is competing (like at NHK, 4CC).
    You forgot SP at WC. Yeah, international judges showed Hanyu such a huge favour that uncle Orser didn't even boher to stay in K&C at FS knowing that Yuzu is done.
    They just wanted to save face of former "Japan's ace". ... There's no "worry" of Kozuka stealing the show from Takahashi.
    There is no "worry" that Hanyu can steal the show from Dai either. Tickets for DOI and FaOI are not sold out, and the show is in a week. Yuzu became popular in the eathquake summer when he was touring around Japan in shows. Now he is not a ticket seller because he doesn't compete enough in Japan and the public doesn't see him anymore: http://ticket.pia.jp/pia/ticketInfor...8901&rlsCd=001 http://ticket.pia.jp/pia/ticketInfor...5311&rlsCd=001 While the tickets for two-months-away FrOI disappeared within minutes http://ticket.pia.jp/pia/ticketInfor...__from=twitter Do you want to hear my story how I got mine ?

    You were ranting exactly the same thing about Hanyu and Dai last season. And at the end of the day the only one who won from it is PChan and SC. You should be pround of yourself. Great work! Keep it up.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post

    Yeah, you are right.
    I hope Dai can also skip JO this time for the same reason: to peak for the Olympics. His opening GP assignment is SA, the very first one out of six GP this season, and he is not that young, he needs to pace himself more carefully to prepare for the Nats. JO, SA, NHK, GPF (hopefully!) before Nats seem too much, I would fear.
    Yes, doing both JO and SA might be tough. Fernadez will have to fly to/from Canada before SA as well. But he seems to be injury-free and a tough person. He's been doing a lot of shows this off season.
    But there's always a good thing.
    After Dai finishes SA (Oct 20) he won't have to travel anymore. Perhaps his next travel abroad will be JSF's training camp in Armenia in February 2014? I'm not an expert of Dai's schedules ,so feel free to crrect it. After SA he can settle down in Japan and prepare for NHK, GPF and Japanese Nationals.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    By "many Japanese fans" you mean whom exactly? You were walking around and keeping records? There are also those who say that for TV&JSF Dai is a cash cow who they want to milk as much as they can. That's why they make him work every event. While the youngest is the talent to treasure. There are also those who think that Hanyu didn't make the game JSF expected from him last season after all the investment they made in him. And, there are those, mostly Yuzu fans, who think of a weak boy who can't deal with the physical pressure and therefore he should skip all the events possible, which in fact make him look coward-ish, but they don't get it. My opinion is JSF simply want to keep him on a short financial leash, and by doing this- to control that school teacher's son better. That's why they never submit him in commercials events. Carigan's "reasons" have no merit. Because TV is interested in money only and JSF in money and medals.

    As for your reasons of Mao absent in 2011, they all fit to the reasons of Yuzu's absent in 2013. Be fair.
    You are kidding, right? Oh, hell, I should wait for the day to see deedee1's politically correct trolling. I get what you are saying. It is not fair that Dai has to work every event for TV and JSF. While the National Champion is relaxing in his garden and doing nothing. But from the Yuzu's point they are actually not doing him any favour. He is not gaining popularity by not showing up in fs events and he is not earning any cent. That's why I never get all his mummies' fans, as if they want him to stay a poor fragile boy, without big name or cash in his pocket.
    You forgot SP at WC. Yeah, international judges showed Hanyu such a huge favour that uncle Orser didn't even boher to stay in K&C at FS knowing that Yuzu is done.
    There is no "worry" that Hanyu can steal the show from Dai either. Tickets for DOI and FaOI are not sold out, and the show is in a week. Yuzu became popular in the eathquake summer when he was touring around Japan in shows. Now he is not a ticket seller because he doesn't compete enough in Japan and the public doesn't see him anymore: http://ticket.pia.jp/pia/ticketInfor...8901&rlsCd=001 http://ticket.pia.jp/pia/ticketInfor...5311&rlsCd=001 While the tickets for two-months-away FrOI disappeared within minutes http://ticket.pia.jp/pia/ticketInfor...__from=twitter Do you want to hear my story how I got mine ?

    You were ranting exactly the same thing about Hanyu and Dai last season. And at the end of the day the only one who won from it is PChan and SC. You should be pround of yourself. Great work! Keep it up.
    Interesting comments. Some (such as the situation in Japan) I just have no knowledge of. There are many points I agree with, such as it was wrong that Orser did not sit in the K&C at FS with Yuzuru. It doesn't really matter about the practicalities of it. The optics were just plainly wrong and there are some things that you just don't do. Just my opinion, but that should not happen to any skater by a coach. As well, the schedule that both Yuzuru and Dai had to skate last year helped no one except the other elite skaters. Both Yuzuru and Dai basically beat the crap out of each other so that nothing was left by the end of the season. That was bad management by JSF and it was obviously purposefully done.

    However, I hardly think that either PChan or SC has anything to brag about (even if they are) regarding what happened at Worlds. Hanyu's skate in the FS is one of the most watchable, and certainly more watchable than PChan's. There is no shame in Yuzuru's FS unlike Chan's which was extremely shameful (imho). That is not exactly a coup by PChan and SC. Winning is not everything in this case. PChan's medal has nothing behind it that is real. Hanyu's skate was pure grit, heart and talent. It has more merit in the history books than Chan's.

    As well, this is really early in Yuzuru's development. He has a lot of time to make his name, pick up cash and sponsors, Orser has made amazingly great differences to Yuzuru's skating. The conspiracy theories just don't bear out (imho). Orser does have great integrity and he is a great coach. He is (from what I hear and can see) giving Hanyu everything he can. Aside from that issue, however, Hanyu has to be careful in how he uses his time. He trains quite far away from his home. His popularity for one summer is not as important as his being a better skater so that he is at his peak for Sochi. If Hanyu wins gold at Sochi (he is my pick based on his ability, depth, inborn talent and tenacity), it will be a bigger change to the power dynamic and his popularity than whatever happens this summer. I am not saying that you are wrong in your assessment, but that there are rational reasons for Yuzuru to minimize his time in Japan (if he is training with Orser in Toronto at this time) this summer. Certainly defendable. 20/20 hindsight is always perfect. It might be the wrong decision, but given that he is working toward the future, decisions are being made to help him win at Sochi rather than make him popular in the short run. That makes good sense to me.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paola D View Post
    After Dai finishes SA (Oct 20) he won't have to travel anymore. Perhaps his next travel abroad will be JSF's training camp in Armenia in February 2014? I'm not an expert of Dai's schedules ,so feel free to crrect it. After SA he can settle down in Japan and prepare for NHK, GPF and Japanese Nationals.
    You don't know that. Nobody knows, that's why nobody can correct you right now. He might join Morozov in Novogorsk or US any time.
    Quote Originally Posted by phaeljones View Post
    That was bad management by JSF and it was obviously purposefully done.
    I am more curious about the world "purposefully" here. Because all this was done clearly not in the interest of Japan and its skaters.
    However, I hardly think that either PChan or SC has anything to brag about (even if they are) regarding what happened at Worlds.
    No arguments on that. Surely not from me.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    You are kidding, right? Oh, hell, I should wait for the day to see deedee1's politically correct trolling. I get what you are saying. It is not fair that Dai has to work every event for TV and JSF. While the National Champion is relaxing in his garden and doing nothing. But from the Yuzu's point they are actually not doing him any favour. He is not gaining popularity by not showing up in fs events and he is not earning any cent. That's why I never get all his mummies' fans, as if they want him to stay a poor fragile boy, without big name or cash in his pocket.
    Okay okay you've won, let's talk. ^;;;
    Idk how you did read my mind, but to be honest I have always thought about 'unfairness' re Dai and other (top) J-boys in general and complained it to my hubby at some points in the past. It was always Dai who worked too much for shows and TV appearances during off seasons, it was always Dai who had to face with crazy J-media and had to shoulder burden of responsibilities to represent the country/ Japanese Mens skating...thus he seldom had time off/holidays in spring, seemed (to me) always ran out of time fully to prepare for new seasons, and by the end of first half of seasons he appeared exhausted. For that matter, I as a Dai fan had 'grudge' sort of feeling against, say, Nobu a couple seasons ago and Taka/Yuzu now. He was not the only one who could be regarded as top/elite skaters, there were always other boys who could also take/reduce Dai's such burden by now...

    Oh and as for 'trolling', even if it's politically correct, I don't like it very much because I rather am average typical prototype a 'humble' Japanese housewife. But thanks for speaking for me. I regard myself such a very lucky fan because I don't have to try to defend my favorite skaters all the time with, you know, dictionaries by my side.

  13. #28
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    As far as I know, Hanyu is only in CIC events this summer, i.e. AOI, DOI and FaOI. He appeared in Asada's show The Ice (IMG) last summer, but not this year. JO is also an IMG event. Fernandez, who is also coached by Orser, is with IMG now, and will perform at DOI, FaOI, The Ice and JO. It looks like Hanyu is avoiding IMG events. I have no idea who is managing him, but maybe he is bound to a contract to perform exclusively at CIC events?

    I don't think marketing an athlete as a 18-years old boy (not man) with a delicate body prone to injuries is a good idea if JSF wants to make him as popular as Takahashi.

  14. #29
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    I don't think Hanyu cares about making more money in Olympic season. He has already firmly had his place in the top three among Japanese skaters. It's better to focus on competing.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paola D View Post
    But there's always a good thing.
    After Dai finishes SA (Oct 20) he won't have to travel anymore. Perhaps his next travel abroad will be JSF's training camp in Armenia in February 2014? I'm not an expert of Dai's schedules ,so feel free to crrect it. After SA he can settle down in Japan and prepare for NHK, GPF and Japanese Nationals.
    Thanks for lifting up my feeling!

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