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Thread: Japan Open 2013 2014

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    If Rochette does take up a spot at the Olympics, that means one of the upstart & young talent will miss the chance of going to the Olympics. Given there are at least 3~4 of them who show good potential, the cost is not trivial.
    But Joannie is amazing - why should she be kept off the team if she is capable? I admit I was skeptical that she had not competed in so long. But she was in great shape at Japan Open. If she earns her spot this season then I support it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's happened before, particularly with new programs. I think one issue is that her StSq didn't go all the way to the other end of the rink and she didn't get enough speed on her spirals to cover the full ice surface. It's a bit of a danger when putting both sequences back to back at the end of a program, especially when the skater is running out of steam and runs the risk of not covering the full surface for the footwork sequences.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Doubling a jump is way more destructive to success. You say this like Sotnikova does not intend to do a jump combo with her second 3F and make use of the 2nd half bonus... and she should be doing a 3-jump combo on her final jumping passes if she misses the second 3F... but that's not an issue with the flip, so much as her remembering to do the 3-jump combo off her final 2A (at Worlds she made the same mistake not putting the 3-jump combo on her final 3S or 2A to make up for missing her second 3F -- and would have beaten Liza in the FS had she done so). Plenty of skaters make use of the 3-jump combo in the second half to garner bonus, and if they mess up the jump that starts the 3-jump combo it's their responsibility to make up for it by tacking on the combo to any of their remaining jumping passes. It's not like she's putting all her eggs in one basket with that 3F (e.g. if Murakami ever missed her second 3F last season, which was part of a 3F-2A sequence... the lack of an axel jump in the program would negate her final triple jump... which happened).

    However for Tuktamysheva, she has doubled her lutz many times before, which is more severe that Sotnikova stepping out of a fully-rotated 3F. The issue is Sotnikova forgetting to do the 3-jump combo on her remaining jumping passes, not having the 2nd flip there in the first place.
    No the big mistake IS having 2 flips. It's a fundamental extreme error in program design. Rarely is the worst thing to happen is a step out of a fully rotated flip. The issue is how can sotnikova improve her free skate scores and the now obvious and clear way is getting rid of 2 flips. Singles falls leaving out 2t -2t or 2t- 2lp is common and normal for sotnikva to do because it's based off a flip and she has zayaked because she messed up to put the combo. Bringing in Liza to try to say sotnikova doesn't have a problem is absurd.

  3. #198
    Custom Title KwanIsALegend's Avatar
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    OK I am a little embarrassed but I had no idea about Japan Open happening this past weekend. Irina Slutskaya ( thank you for the videos Moa88 btw) wow, that was unexpected. She did not do well at all and it is great she wants to comeback but, honestly I don't know what her chances are. Can she even compete with Yuna?
    I am not crazy about Ashley's music, it just seems heavy and doesn't really go anywhere ( if that makes sense).
    Jeremy, he seemed to get stronger as the program went on. It is hard to say where he will fit this season since there seems to be a lot of competition in the US men and aren't there only 2 spots for the Olympics? Nationals is going to be so tense. It is going to be about who can handle the pressure the best.
    So happy the season has begun, now the fight for the Olympics begins!

  4. #199
    Custom Title DobrinFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    OK I am a little embarrassed but I had no idea about Japan Open happening this past weekend. Irina Slutskaya ( thank you for the videos Moa88 btw) wow, that was unexpected. She did not do well at all and it is great she wants to comeback but, honestly I don't know what her chances are. Can she even compete with Yuna?
    I am not crazy about Ashley's music, it just seems heavy and doesn't really go anywhere ( if that makes sense).
    Jeremy, he seemed to get stronger as the program went on. It is hard to say where he will fit this season since there seems to be a lot of competition in the US men and aren't there only 2 spots for the Olympics? Nationals is going to be so tense. It is going to be about who can handle the pressure the best.
    So happy the season has begun, now the fight for the Olympics begins!
    She's not aiming for a competitive comeback. Japan asked her to compete here and she accepted just like Rochette.

  5. #200
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    Oh, I didn't realize that, sorry.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    I am not crazy about Ashley's music, it just seems heavy and doesn't really go anywhere ( if that makes sense).
    Jeremy, he seemed to get stronger as the program went on. It is hard to say where he will fit this season since there seems to be a lot of competition in the US men and aren't there only 2 spots for the Olympics? Nationals is going to be so tense. It is going to be about who can handle the pressure the best.
    So happy the season has begun, now the fight for the Olympics begins!
    I haven't watched all the videos, but I have watched Ashley's, and I feel exactly as you do about the music: It's heavy, and it doesn't really go anywhere. I feel I can't get any traction while watching the program, and if I can't, how can Ashley?

    I'm also very heartened to see Jeremy do so well. I have no idea what this will lead to, but wouldn't it be nice if Jeremy could continue this strong?

    On the other hand, I'm tremendously anxious for Daisuke. I'm afraid to watch his programs after reading what everyone here says.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    On the other hand, I'm tremendously anxious for Daisuke. I'm afraid to watch his programs after reading what everyone here says.
    If you haven't already, you should watch his performance from Carnival on Ice. It's of his new SP, with encore from his 2010 Olympic SP, and he looks much better than he did in the Japan Open LP (and the program itself is really beautiful).

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    On the other hand, I'm tremendously anxious for Daisuke. I'm afraid to watch his programs after reading what everyone here says.
    Just watch it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1AR22Nec70
    Don't listen what they say here, the program is a piece of art.
    When seeing it for the first time, you may feel a little strange. That's because you probably have some mental images about Daisuke & The Beatles, but they all go to the pieces when watching this.
    At the second viewing, everything "comes together".
    This program is about Dai's "Long And Winding Road" and is beautiful and moving like Dai's career.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by itoja View Post
    When seeing it for the first time, you may feel a little strange. That's because you probably have some mental images about Daisuke & The Beatles, but they all go to the pieces when watching this.
    At the second viewing, everything "comes together".
    This program is about Dai's "Long And Winding Road" and is beautiful and moving like Dai's career.
    Thank you so much for beautifully saying it for me, itoja!

    That's exactly how I felt. When I saw it the first time, I got confused even shocked, and I told my husband, 'okay, I don't hate it but I don't love it either. Just yet'. One of the reaons should be I worried about him too much because he looked soooo skinny on ice (the report says he got a bad flu prior to JO and lost weights (about ten pounds...), and even looked pale (due to the color of his shirt? maybe).
    But when I watched the recorded one on TV screen at home again, then a couple of more times, my impression on his program changed evantually. I felt the same way with Klook program; I didn't hate it but didn't love it either at the beginning of that season, but later I never got tired of watching it time and time again. In this sense, Dai's Beatles is the same as the Klook to me: the-more-you-watch-it, the-more-you-get-'addicted'-to-it type of program.

    Dai's skating to Beatles here was that of I had never seen from him before. He wasn't the skater that I have known of, he looked like a completely different skater to me so to speak. The speed got faster and he was floating on ice. His blades and each body movements were part of every note of music. The touches of his blades to ice have got softer, lihgter, smoother and even happier to my eyes. His skating has improved and posture has got better and better. Dai did lots of compulsory trainings during summer he says, and it clearly shows in this program.

    I am sure I am going to love this program as the season deepens. Whether this is worthy of an OGM-winning program or not?: I don't know. And I don't care. Right now, I am only glad happy, very happy for the simple fact that Dai is able to skate to this program for his (probably) final competitive season. I am very grateful to Lori that she gave him such a beautiful program and helped him to improve his skating, so that he can show the new look of his skating to all skating fans in the world. In the Olympic season. I am also very grateful to skating god that Dai had an opportunity to work with Lori, finally, whom he longed for working with for a long time.

    So, Olympia, I would also suggest you to watch it. (But please be prepared for 2 falls at the beginning...) Or, you can wait until Skate America, where he probably will skate more cleanly, if you like.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    from Carnival on Ice (Ex right after JO), which I have found on YT so far!
    More.
    -Nobunari, EX Last Samurai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gtYT1B3vf0
    -Tatsuki, SP East of Eden: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLnhwh9Rl8
    -Shizuka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_DRHki-iA4

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    No the big mistake IS having 2 flips. It's a fundamental extreme error in program design. Rarely is the worst thing to happen is a step out of a fully rotated flip. The issue is how can sotnikova improve her free skate scores and the now obvious and clear way is getting rid of 2 flips. Singles falls leaving out 2t -2t or 2t- 2lp is common and normal for sotnikva to do because it's based off a flip and she has zayaked because she messed up to put the combo. Bringing in Liza to try to say sotnikova doesn't have a problem is absurd.
    No, the issue is that Sotnikova neglects to put the 3 jump combo on her subsequent jumping pass(es) should she misses the 3-jump combo on the 3F. It's not smart for her to downgrade her technical content when she will need the hardest difficult to even stay in contention - one (f)lutz and one flip isn't going to cut it. The reason I bought up Liza is because it stresses the point that even though Liza's two lutzes are giving her difficulty (heck, even her regular 3Z-3T in both programs), she still attempts them because it is necessary for her to stay competitive, even if (like Sotnikova's two flips) it isn't the most reliable. To contend with the top skaters (Mao/Yu Na/Kostner), all second-tier skaters should be attempting at least two 3F's or two 3Z's.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    No, the issue is that Sotnikova neglects to put the 3 jump combo on her subsequent jumping pass(es) should she misses the 3-jump combo on the 3F. It's not smart for her to downgrade her technical content when she will need the hardest difficult to even stay in contention (...)
    If we are considering her current jumping layout, that's about the last thing she should attempt.

    The skaters are allowed to attempt 3 combos and repeat two types of triples. The thing is, if a triple is repeated, one or both of the attempts MUST be in a combo. If neither of the repeated triples is in a combo, the second one is called as +SEQ, its base value is reduced to 80% and it uses up one of the combo slots.

    If, for example, Adelina tried the thing you suggested on the previous page:
    [QUOTE=CanadianSkaterGuy;771196]Doubling a jump is way more destructive to success. You say this like Sotnikova does not intend to do a jump combo with her second 3F and make use of the 2nd half bonus... and she should be doing a 3-jump combo on her final jumping passes if she misses the second 3F... but that's not an issue with the flip, so much as her remembering to do the 3-jump combo off her final 2A (at Worlds she made the same mistake not putting the 3-jump combo on her final 3S or 2A to make up for missing her second 3F -- and would have beaten Liza in the FS had she done so).
    ...not only she wouldn't beat Liza, but she would place below Kaetlyn.

    As you can see on the protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FS_Scores.pdf
    Adelina had 3 combos in the LP: 3Lz-3T<, 2A-3T<, 3F+SEQ. If she went for 3S-2T-2L (since 2A was a bit wonky to begin with), she'd lose the 4.92 she got for her 3S.

    Here are some examples of the skaters who got a bit too ambitious with their combos:
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FS_Scores.pdf
    Daisuke Takahashi - 4T<+SEQ, 3A+SEQ, 3F-3T, 3Lz*+2T*
    One tiny 2T and the points possibly earned for an otherwise fine Lz went pooof.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FS_Scores.pdf
    Nobunari Oda: 4T-3T, 3S-3T, 3A+SEQ, 3F*-2T*-2L*
    Love the guy, but his LPs at Nats 05 and Worlds 2006, 2007, 2009 & 2011 are practically an instructional documentary on "How to Creatively Violate the Zayak Rule and Give Your Fans A Heart Attack".

    I don't mind Adelina's current jump layout. It's challenging for her, but she won't get magically better at 3F unless she keeps on attempting it (she's in a pretty similar situation to Mao's back in 2009, and Mao eventually got her 3Fs consistent). That said, tacking on the combo on another jump when you already used 3 combo slots is the opposite of a good idea.

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