The rest of the top 12 ladies and the Olympics.... | Page 10 | Golden Skate

The rest of the top 12 ladies and the Olympics....

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
out of all the newbies
Gracie will have the chance to spoil Oly silver or bronze
Ashley would be lucky to get into top 8th, she is NOT the No.1 us lady , that spot only belongs to Gracie
Wagner has passed her peak, that's it . done

I think Gracie has to take that No.1 spot to claim it don't you think?
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Gracie started skating just before she was 8, i.e. very old for beginning.
So she had good results being elder than others.
Her first really good result was at Skate Detroit at July 2011. She did not take place in Nationals-2011 (did not qualify), so she had (because of Skate Detroit) only one, 7th JGP Event at 2011. She won this Event, but it was last JGP Event and to give her one more JGP Event was impossible.
After that she won Nationals-2012 at Junior level and earned spot to JrWorlds.
So JrWorlds-2012 was her second International.

It is normal that for talented young skaters JrWorlds is 4th International Event (after two JGP Events and JGP Final). It would be so for Gracie if USFS would send her to earlier JGP Event, not last - she would have one more JGP Event and most probably JGP Final.

Thank you so much, AlexRus. :) It's really interesting what different paths people have come on. I think I first heard Gracie's name in autumn 2012 - during some GP event, Chris Howarth mentioned her as very promising and someone to keep an eye on in the future.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I think Gracie has to take that No.1 spot to claim it don't you think?

the WTT results is already a preview of what we can see this coming season, she has the technical goods
and once she get better consistency this season she will surpass Wagner in PCS
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
For info.

In single female skating, last time when non-Worlds medalist won Olympics medal, was at 1988, Elizabeth Manley (silver medal), she took place in Worlds before Olympics 5 times, best result 4th place.
After that all Olympics medalists were Worlds medalists, at most Worlds Champions.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
For info.

In single female skating, last time when non-Worlds medalist won Olympics medal, was at 1988, Elizabeth Manley (silver medal), she took place in Worlds before Olympics 5 times, best result 4th place.
After that all Olympics medalists were Worlds medalists, at most Worlds Champions.


By that logic Suzuki is the one with the best chance to sneak in over one of the big 3, or perhaps even Leonova (although the thought makes me laugh at this point) if she makes the Russian team; or an even more unlikely event an inspired comeback by Rochette or Ando.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
By that logic Suzuki is the one with the best chance to sneak in over one of the big 3, or perhaps even Leonova (although the thought makes me laugh at this point) if she makes the Russian team; or an even more unlikely event an inspired comeback by Rochette or Ando.
It is not logic, it is fact. It was so in past. Of course, no warranty that the same will be in future.

And best chances for Olympics medals, of course, have World Champions Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner. We all know it.

Suzuki, btw, may skate very good. She is not stable, but who knows how will she skate at Olympics? Maybe as at her best competitions of 2012/2013.
Leonova, if her SP will be as at Worlds-2012 and FS as at Worlds-2011, may earn very high place.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Really, I won't be surprised if Gracie ends up being 4th at the Olympics/World Champion at next Worlds.

Mirai did it, Kimmie did it-why can't Gracie?;)
Mirai was 4th at Olympics-2010, 7th at Worlds-2010.

Kimmie was 6th at Olympics-2006, and after that World Champion 2006.
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Look at Gold's PB. Then look at the PB of the other skaters. The math doesn't lie. Didn't I repeatedly say that Suzuki has a good chance of beating Gold, and that it CAN happen with all of the others as well? As for Lipnitskaia and Korpi, Gold has faced both of them once -- that's not a lot of a data to extrapolate from (and what Jammers said about experience, etc). Gold has grown tremendously as a skater since 2012 JWC and 2012 CoR.

Yuna Kim has been beat by Miki Ando and Fumie Suguri before, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen again. Nor do I feel that Korpi, Lipnitskaia, Osmond, Gao, Leonova, Radionova, or Li pose significant challenges to Gold at this point.

You don't think that a lot was on the line at Worlds, when she could have imploded and finished out of the top ten? And have you already heard/seen Gold's new free skate? Because if you have, I'd be more than happy to listen to your perception of how it's "all wrong for her."

Personal Best scores don't count for anything if a skater doesn't skate to the best of his/her abilities at an event. Consistency is the name of the game, and Gold hasn't shown the ability to produce at a high level consistently. She was up and down all last season. So, I do think all of those skaters could easily finish ahead of Gold should skate similar to how she did at Skate Canada, Cup of Russia and Four Continents last season.

I don't know if it's trying to be perfect or trying too hard to prove what she's able to do (LOOK at this -- oops!) or getting too jazzed up and overusing her adrenaline, but yes, she's her own biggest enemy. I truly believe that narrowing her focus to 3Lz+3T (x2) and 2A+3T along with improving her IN, CH and PE instead of 3Lz+3T, 3F+3T, and 3F+1Lo+3S and maybe getting around at some point to work on her soft skills after she does all the above will improve her consistency. I know other than trying to generate a buzz of her amazing athleticism, I didn't understand "the throw crap at the wall" technical approach last season and felt that this was very bad strategy. BUT, I am not a fly on the wall when she and her team plan for the year...

If I remember right, you were the poster who kept raving about Gold's 3F-1Lo-3T combo and what a "wow" factor she had with so many different 3-3 combos. I remember posting that her jump layout in the FS was terrible, and that she needed to go back to the layout with the 3Lz-3T and 2A-3T, as those were her most consistent combos and the ones that would earn her the most GOE. It only took her coaching staff until the end of last season to figure that out.

Anyway, Gold posted a video of herself doing 2A-3T-3T (UR) and 2A-1Lo-3F combos. So, maybe she intends to stick with the same "throw crap at the wall" technical approach this season. For me, I don't understand why she is practicing all of these different combos that won't increase her base value or earn her more GOE. If she wants to earn a higher technical score, she needs to get her current jump layout more consistent, fix her lip, and/or increase her stamina so that she can backload her programs.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Personal Best scores don't count for anything if a skater doesn't skate to the best of his/her abilities at an event. Consistency is the name of the game, and Gold hasn't shown the ability to produce at a high level consistently. She was up and down all last season. So, I do think all of those skaters could easily finish ahead of Gold should skate similar to how she did at Skate Canada, Cup of Russia and Four Continents last season.

If I remember right, you were the poster who kept raving about Gold's 3F-1Lo-3T combo and what a "wow" factor she had with so many different 3-3 combos. I remember posting that her jump layout in the FS was terrible, and that she needed to go back to the layout with the 3Lz-3T and 2A-3T, as those were her most consistent combos and the ones that would earn her the most GOE. It only took her coaching staff until the end of last season to figure that out.

Anyway, Gold posted a video of herself doing 2A-3T-3T (UR) and 2A-1Lo-3F combos. So, maybe she intends to stick with the same "throw crap at the wall" technical approach this season. For me, I don't understand why she is practicing all of these different combos that won't increase her base value or earn her more GOE. If she wants to earn a higher technical score, she needs to get her current jump layout more consistent, fix her lip, or increase her stamina so that she can backload her programs.

But none of those skaters mentioned above are exactly consistent, either, excepting Lipnitskaia (who, honestly, I don't see beating a halfway decent Gold). So "easily" may not be the best description to use there. Gracie had it together in the back end of the season, especially in the FS, where her score ceiling is HUGE. Most of those other ladies didn't.

mskater93 actually TRAINS at Gracie's rink, and probably saw Gracie landing consistent 3-1-3 combos in practice. Unfortunately, it didn't carry over into competition, so she dropped it pretty quick. Gracie had her current FS down pat by US Nationals; however, I'd agree that being able to land two different 3-3's as well as other difficult jumps does signal a wow-factor in a skater -- especially one as young as Gracie.

Who knows what Gracie is planning for next season, or what her coaching team has in mind? She trains 3As and 4Ss without intent to use them, but I wouldn't call it a worthless endeavor. In no scenario do I see her trying the "throw crap at the wall" routine again, since it absolutely tanked last season -- and, as they say, the definition of insanity is expecting different results from the same action. The 2A-1Lo-3F in the video looked pretty good already; she still has a few months before her first major competition to see which jump combinations work for her. She also intends to add the 2A-3T in the second half of the program for bonus points, as you suggested.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Training things that are more difficult than your actual plan during the "downtime" of the season (between last comp and first) can help your mental toughness AND it's often important to mix things up to keep your regimen from getting stale. It's like food, if all you eat is meat and potatoes every day, every meal, well, that's pretty boring. I would also argue that doing the 3F+1Lo+3S that she was doing in the first half of the year (which WAS and IS fantastic in practice at our rink) set her up for that clean LP at Nationals and strong skates at Worlds and WTT.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I just worry with this being Olympic season that she needs above all consistency to make sure she makes the team. No doubt if she lands her jumps at Nationals she's going to Sochi but i'd hate to see her having a meltdown partly because her jump content was to much for her to handle.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I've heard that the lesson was learned about trying too hard to jam too much into the program last year. We'll see if the memory was short in about a week (Skate Milwaukee)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Skaters develop at their own pace and Gracie had a rough first year as a Junior with nerves and growth spurts. I'm glad she wasn't a 13 year old jumping bean that was overhyped it allowed her to improve on her jumps and make her ready to take the next steps in her skating. Now she can focus on the rest of her skills to become a better all-around skater. And 16 isn't young to still be a Junior skater. We've gotten used to the next big thing dominated Juniors at 13-14 and two years later they are already on decline.

Also as someone mentioned, Gracie was 8 when she started skating, most skaters who wind up competing at the elite level start at a much younger age, so when you think of it that way, although Gracie is 4 years older than Elena Radionova, they actually began skating at the same time/have been skating the same number of years (9-10), so it sort of makes sense. Elena started skating at 4, which is more the norm for elite skaters (most start sometime between 4 and 6, if not even earlier), so at age 8 she was already engaged in elite training and was likely starting to land some triples, whereas Gracie at that age was just starting Learn to Skate, so it puts things in perspective. Most of the young phenoms have a leg up on someone like Gracie because at the age at she was learning how to skate backwards and do bunny hops, these other girls had 3 or 4 years of training under their belts and were much more advanced because of it.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Also as someone mentioned, Gracie was 8 when she started skating, most skaters who wind up competing at the elite level start at a much younger age, so when you think of it that way, although Gracie is 4 years older than Elena Radionova, they actually began skating at the same time/have been skating the same number of years (9-10), so it sort of makes sense. Elena started skating at 4, which is more the norm for elite skaters (most start sometime between 4 and 6, if not even earlier), so at age 8 she was already engaged in elite training and was likely starting to land some triples, whereas Gracie at that age was just starting Learn to Skate, so it puts things in perspective. Most of the young phenoms have a leg up on someone like Gracie because at the age at she was learning how to skate backwards and do bunny hops, these other girls had 3 or 4 years of training under their belts and were much more advanced because of it.

True, and Liza started around 4, as well. But Yuna started at 7, which is pretty late.

Jammers is right about the prepubescent wunderkinds (see Adelina and Liza) who later struggle to adjust to their changing bodies. Liza is a good example of this -- she was landing triple axels at the age of twelve, but now, she can barely ensure a clean landing on a solo loop or double axel. Meanwhile, you have girls like Yuna and Mao, who didn't begin skating as seniors until they were sixteen and had already passed the biggest stages of puberty. Elena has yet to hit this stage of development, but from what I hear, she is predisposed to be petite and slim.

The good thing about a seventeen-year-old, brand-new senior like Gracie is that she won't need to worry about weight gain or growth spurts doing her in.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
True, and Liza started around 4, as well. But Yuna started at 7, which is pretty late.

Jammers is right about the prepubescent wunderkinds (see Adelina and Liza) who later struggle to adjust to their changing bodies. Liza is a good example of this -- she was landing triple axels at the age of twelve, but now, she can barely ensure a clean landing on a solo loop or double axel. Meanwhile, you have girls like Yuna and Mao, who didn't begin skating as seniors until they were sixteen and had already passed the biggest stages of puberty. Elena has yet to hit this stage of development, but from what I hear, she is predisposed to be petite and slim.

The good thing about a seventeen-year-old, brand-new senior like Gracie is that she won't need to worry about weight gain or growth spurts doing her in.


Yuna was 5 when she started skating, not 7.
 
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