Not as good as she's ever been just better than Liza and Adelina. She doesn't even have to be as good as she's ever been. Elena R is the overall best now but not eligible best. Liza and Adelina wouldn't have even got as close as Julia did to beating Elena!
The rest of the top 12 ladies and the Olympics....
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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Not as good as she's ever been just better than Liza and Adelina. She doesn't even have to be as good as she's ever been. Elena R is the overall best now but not eligible best. Liza and Adelina wouldn't have even got as close as Julia did to beating Elena!
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- Nov 13, 2012
Ah, well, we see things quite differently then, and will simply have to agree to disagree.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Yes, because Adelina or Liza have not topped 169.71 SEVERAL times last season.
It's fine if your are a Julia fan and don't like Liza and Adelina but it's silly to make statements that have no factual basis.
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- Aug 21, 2012
I pretty much agree with your groupings.
Yuna and Carolina are essentially untouchable when it comes to PCS -- at least, I doubt any of the other ladies will improve to their level by the Olympics. Mao and Akiko are very close; it all depends on who skates better on a given day. Ashley and Kanako are also PCS siblings, so to speak, although Ashley receives slightly higher marks because she projects greater power across the ice.
Kiira is usually straddling the second and third groups; her PCS is anywhere from the upper 50's to the lower 60's. I can see Adelina, Kaetlyn, and Gracie breaking free of the 50's sometime next season. Mirai could also move up if she starts skating faster. Zijun, on the other hand, seems to have a PCS ceiling of 60 when completely clean -- her skating skills pale in comparison to the upper tier.
Of the last group, Liza T is most likely to improve her PCS, seeing as how her body changes this season slowed her down a lot. I won't hold my breath for the others (except maybe Agnes).
Yes, because Adelina or Liza have not topped 169.71 SEVERAL times last season.
It's fine if your are a Julia fan and don't like Liza and Adelina but it's silly to make statements that have no factual basis.
You're just basing everything on personal bests and scores and just ignoring the actual skating that was done by all 3 at the end of last season! You are saying Liza and Adelina wouldVe beaten julia at the end of last season the way the were all skating? Lol! and even in the gp season when Julia was the top person at the gp from Russia! Julia is the best.
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- Aug 21, 2012
Personal bests actually relate to how well the skater performed, though ...
And all three ladies achieved their PB's last season. You're actually suggesting that neither Liza nor Adelina could have surpassed Elena R at Junior Worlds when, in fact, they both bested Elena's score with -- in your words -- "horrible" performances at senior Worlds.Judging from your need to bash Liza and Adelina for their poor late-season performances in every comment, Julia is obviously your favorite of the Russians right now. But give credit where credit is due -- both Liza and Adelina skated admirably at Euros.
Personal bests actually relate to how well the skater performed, though ...
Judging from your need to bash Liza and Adelina for their poor late-season performances in every comment, Julia is obviously your favorite of the Russians right now. But give credit where credit is due -- both Liza and Adelina skated admirably at Euros.
It is only because of how she skated at jr worlds compared to how Adelina and Liza skated at both sr worlds AND wtt that has made ms think Julia is the best. Not anything about being a possible fan. I get using Adelina and lizas personal bests and their performances at euros to demonstrate how they're the best and will be the team in Sochi but when compared to Julia who will also be eligible they suffer greatly.
Personal bests actually relate to how well the skater performed, though ...
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If you put Liza's adelina's Elena's and julias performances and not scores all in the same event the order would be Elena Julia Adelina Liza!
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- Aug 21, 2012
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then, because I wasn't at all impressed with how Julia skated at Junior Worlds. Elena beat her by a sizable margin; Julia was lucky to medal (and then only after the Americans fell apart).
Also, you can't really compare Jr. Worlds and Sr. Worlds. At Jr. Worlds, Julia was a 15-year-old competing against 12- and 13-year olds, which gave her a big edge. At Sr. Worlds, Liza and Adelina were 16-year-olds leading the Russian team and competing against ladies like Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, and Carolina Kostner, which likely affected their nerves. At WTT, they displayed many of the problems they've been having all season, but that's not to say that Julia doesn't have her fair share of issues. It's a whole 'nother ball game once you hit the senior ranks -- having only skated on the GP, even a healthy Julia wouldn't have measured up at this year's Worlds.
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- Feb 17, 2010
OK, so now you're saying scores don't matter? Because this is a judged sport. Scoring is ALL that matters. If Yuna falls once does that mean everyone who doesn't fall is all of a sudden better, even if she scores 10 points higher?
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- Aug 21, 2012
When were all of them in the same event?
And, anyway, "performances" is a terribly subjective term that depends on an individual's opinions and perception of the programs. Maybe YOU think that the order would be Elena, Julia, Adelina, and Liza, but someone else may feel differently. Scoring exists for exactly this reason -- to make the placements as objective as possible.
That's not a good argument at all.
Scores will reflect the skates. The way sotnikova skated just doesn't compare to how Julia skated. If Yuna fell that would be reflected in the score of course and that's all I'm saying.
People are saying that because of Liza and adelina's personal best or scoring at senior worlds those scores mean they will always be better scored than Julia or Elena in all events no matter how they skate? I don't think so! So worlds Adelina will beat jr worlds Julia because of the scores? It would not be reflected in the scores that Adelina missed 2 jumps? Or Liza only did a 3/2?
I disagree with saying Julia was lucky to medal when she was 3 points away or close to that from winning. The issue of Julia at senior worlds doing worse or just as bad as Adelina and Liza says that you believe Julia is just like them and all indications are she isn't like them.
I don't care about the debate about Julia vs the rest, but I am quite curious about your statement about 12 and 13 year old at junior world since you seem to repeat it over again. Who are you talking about? Among the top ten the youngest, Radionova, was already 14 wasn't she? Who else - Samantha CESARIO, Courtney HICKS, or Alaine CHARTRAND were 12 year old there? Julia was still one of the youngest skaters at that competition.
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- Aug 21, 2012
Who was saying that Liza and Adelina will ALWAYS beat Julia or Elena, regardless of how they skate? You're responding to a comment that no one ever made -- obviously, mistakes will be penalized and good performances will be rewarded accordingly. Again, I don't feel that Julia skated well at Jr. Worlds, but the scores still put her in second place. And I'm fine with that because, as drivingmissdaisy said, skating is a JUDGED sport, not a matter of "Well, I liked *that* program better, so she gets the gold medal."
This discussion is becoming more absurd by the minute. Adelina and Liza are great skaters. So are Elena and Julia. You may agree or disagree, but that's my final opinion on the subject.
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- Nov 12, 2009
I get your point and I'm not trying to say Gracie doesn't have huge scoring potential - she does, but so do a lot of these other ladies she'll be up against and I'm not so convinced she's "done" with being inconsistent considering how shaky she was at numerous competitions this past season starting with Skate Detroit - lost to Hannah Miller, US Classic - lost to Agnes, Skate Canada - meltdown and wound up 7th overall, COR - good SP but meh FS which lost her the title to Korpi who had a typical pretty Finn FS with much weaker technical content than Gracie planned, no GPF, 2nd at Nationals but the SP was a hot mess, hot mess again at 4CC where she was 6th and lucky not to be lower considering a number of girls underperformed there. So she was strong at Worlds and WTT, but that's 2 strong competitions compared to 5 really not good ones, and then a couple in-between. That doesn't make me super confident about her heading into next season. When she's on, she's great, and yeah she can medal at her GPs...but if she's off, then yeah, I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see her finish down in 5th or 6th.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Yes, I am saying that if Adelina beat Julia it would be because she scored higher. That is the only way to beat someone.
Wherever Adelina or Liza make mistakes it is reflected in the scores, whether it is at Worlds or Junior Worlds. No one is saying Adelina or Liza will beat Julia every time, just that they will beat her more than she beats them because they are objectively superior skaters based on any measure.
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- Aug 21, 2012
This is the first time I've commented on the age of the skaters at Junior Worlds, actually. Other posters have said it before, but I was not one of them.
Twelve- and thirteen-year-olds was an exaggeration on my behalf; I apologize for that. Julia, however, WAS one of the older and more experienced skaters at Jr. Worlds, which was the point I was trying to get across -- she had a leg-up on many of the girls at Jr. Worlds, which was an advantage that Adelina and Elizaveta did NOT have at Sr. Worlds.
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- Nov 12, 2009
Scores at Junior Worlds this year were pretty low and scores at senior worlds were pretty high...it's not really comparable, not to mention the juniors have one less element and PCS are generally lower as well. Julia with her JW skates would have probably placed about the same as Liza and Adelina at senior Worlds honestly, or maybe she could have knocked Kaetlyn out of 8th but where Kaetlyn's SP was so good and Julia's was not, it's sort of a toss up. Anyways she only lost to Radionova by 4 points at JW, but if you're going to play that card, she only beat Pogorilaya by 5 points and Pogorilaya had a much messier skate, so potentially, all 3 of these girls could be putting up big numbers on the GP if they can keep up their jumping abilities. Liza and Adelina will score higher than Julia in Russia if they skate better, but while Julia sometimes makes a few mistakes, Adelina and Liza often make a whole lot of mistakes so really it will come down to execution. Sotnikova better be careful too, if she has COR-esque meltdowns at her GP events she might wind up losing to Korobeynikova and Pogorilaya which is not what she wants to be doing in the Olympic season...
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