Ashley Wagner to train part-time with Rafael Arutyunyan

drivingmissdaisy said:

It's understandable that she wants to continue to keep her name out there too. Evan is a reigning OGM and people have almost forgotten about him, so even talented skaters can have a very short shelf life when it comes to professional opportunities.

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Also the obvious: Eventually Ashley is going to move on, so I'm sure that she's also saving money for that post-skating life, i.e. college, nest egg, etc.

Icey said:

With two first rate coaches, she probably needs the money.

I think Nicks has done for her what he can, so I really don't understand her continuing with him. Before it is over, I hope she will settle for one or the other, and I would guess it would be Raphael. What happens if she starts getting mixed or different messages from her two coaches. Now, I don't think this is a good idea---too many cooks stirring the pot.

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i agree with this...several times in my career i worked with someone else who taught a different jump technique than my main coach and it does cause confusion. also it does nothing for you in the long run, only hinders your progress. i wonder if raphael and mr. nicks teach a similar technique?

macy said:

i agree with this...several times in my career i worked with someone else who taught a different jump technique than my main coach and it does cause confusion. also it does nothing for you in the long run, only hinders your progress. i wonder if raphael and mr. nicks teach a similar technique?

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The most prominent skater that employed Rafael as the only main coach for many years was probably Aleksandr Abt. I don't know if anyone has employed him as main coach for a significant period of time over 2 years. I know Mao and Michelle have used his services but not for too long and also had other more established coaches in the background. For some reason, Rafael has been treated as a back-up, auxiliary coach, as is the case with Wagner. I don't know why. Why isn't Rafael treated as the real deal?

I also agree that it's better for Wagner to not overburden herself by oscillating between Rafael and Nicks. Two different rinks, long distances, different coaching techniques. She needs to focus on 2 goals 1) consistent 3-3 and 2) a good program with music and style that works for her.

Commuting between Orange County and Lake Arrowhead is even longer than what Mirai faced in her 2 hour commute when Frank C. was in Palm Desert. But perhaps Ashley will be staying at one of the cabins for a few days (if they still exist). It has been years since I've been up to Lake Arrowhead, but the drive, especially in winter is not fun.

KKonas said:

Commuting between Orange County and Lake Arrowhead is even longer than what Mirai faced in her 2 hour commute when Frank C. was in Palm Desert. But perhaps Ashley will be staying at one of the cabins for a few days (if they still exist). It has been years since I've been up to Lake Arrowhead, but the drive, especially in winter is not fun.

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The Skating Lesson folks had been tweeting that Adam Rippon, who is currently being coached by Rafael, has been training at Toyota Sports Center and that there was specuation that Rafael would be relocating to Toyota Sports Center.

Don't know how true that is. But if that's the case, then the two rinks are 50 miles apart, so not too bad. I guess we'll see.

macy said:

i agree with this...several times in my career i worked with someone else who taught a different jump technique than my main coach and it does cause confusion. also it does nothing for you in the long run, only hinders your progress. i wonder if raphael and mr. nicks teach a similar technique?

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Considering the technique that Asada was beginning to employ under Arutyunyan and the improvements Wagner has made under Nicks in her jump technique, I would say they are VERY similar in how they teach.

I remember Michelle saying that Raphael had taught her the importance of blade placement, but then she immediately added that, even so, she had no plans to change her technique.

Michelle did change her technique. She said she wouldn't completely change it, but there were definitely changes. Just look at her jumps from 2004 worlds. The ones she landed cleanly were spectacular and had more lift and speed on the exit. (albeit some people say she flutzes or lips but I'm talking about air position and landings) I also noted a way more curved entrance and exit on her double axel, and more curved entrances and exits on her double jumps on the back end of combinations. Her technique was different at 2005 worlds in that her lutz's were more on the outside edge, she rotated faster, and from the appearance of her landings, there was an obvious intention to make sure everything was fully rotated. At both 04 and 05 worlds, she skated much much faster than in any other year previously and in any competition earlier the season. Raphael knew what he was doing, and they had a plan. He was making her peak at the correct time. She ended up making a couple of mistakes both times out (not counting the 2004 4th place in the short program that was ridiculous), so they couldn't completely capitalize on the huge improvements on speed and technique, but the training was there. I imagine between Nationals and Worlds in 04 and 05 is when he would "chase her down the rink during her programs."

Raphael could be a fantastic coach for Ashley. His expertise in jump technique could help her get a consistent triple/triple and better technique on the jumps she has trouble with. I hope we'll see an improvement on her landings as well with them held longer and more securely. He's a big stickler for speed and flow in a program, so I hope she'll skate faster and have more effortless transitions between elements. Maybe he'll help out with removing some of the superfluous small steps and movements that both Black Swan and Samson and Delilah had that slowed her down when she should have been speeding up. (I blame the choreographers for that.) Everyone is saying there is no way Ashley will do the 2a/3t, but Raphael may be the one to fix her axel as well. Maybe I'm just desperately hoping he'll fix the things that I wish would be fixed in her skating, but I hope he chases her down the rink nonetheless.

All this speculation is just that. It would be much better for Ashley if RA does relocate down from Lake Arrowhead even if only for this season. I am not a particular fan of RA's coaching technique despite what some others seem to think. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak. We will just have to wait and see. She will need a triple/triple somewhere and more speed to make the podium.

I checked the Toyota Center site. It has a section "Look whose joining out staff". Frank Carroll was listed, but no Raphael.

I would think Raphael would have to give some consideration to Chen's and Rippon's wishes before moving.

Ruffles78 said:

Raphael could be a fantastic coach for Ashley. His expertise in jump technique could help her get a consistent triple/triple and better technique on the jumps she has trouble with. I hope we'll see an improvement on her landings as well with them held longer and more securely. He's a big stickler for speed and flow in a program, so I hope she'll skate faster and have more effortless transitions between elements. Maybe he'll help out with removing some of the superfluous small steps and movements that both Black Swan and Samson and Delilah had that slowed her down when she should have been speeding up. (I blame the choreographers for that.) Everyone is saying there is no way Ashley will do the 2a/3t, but Raphael may be the one to fix her axel as well. Maybe I'm just desperately hoping he'll fix the things that I wish would be fixed in her skating, but I hope he chases her down the rink nonetheless.

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I completely agree. But I do think having Nicks also will be good mentally.

BTW:

@AshWagner2010

This situation is not ideal for her (technically speaking). But she seems to be the resilient type. I'm sure she'll make the best of it.

Plus, I'm sure she thought this one out well beforehand. Previous articles indicated just that. Whether it's a good decision or not, only time will tell.

Ashley has canceled her participation in the Ice Tour in Aichi on 7/24 and 7/25 and on the 7/27 and 7/28 iin Osaka Japan.

http://www2.ctv.co.jp/theice/?p=223

demarinis5 said:

Ashley has canceled her participation in the Ice Tour in Aichi on 7/24 and 7/25 and on the 7/27 and 7/28 iin Osaka Japan.

http://www2.ctv.co.jp/theice/?p=223

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Intrigued but not surprised. She must have listened to us.

In all seriousness, though, it's a wise choice. She already lost valuable training time for her role in ATS, and according to her tweets, she's just now getting the choreo for her SP. Add that to a new technical coach who's supposed to get her a consistent 3-3 in a little more than three months, and I understand why she's deciding to buckle down rather than travelling halfway across the world to skate in yet another show. Ashley isn't like Gracie, who needs practice performing without the pressure of competition; Ashley can fix her biggest demons (speed and jumps) right at home.

She has mentioned regrets about biting off more than she could chew in the past, so this is not surprising.

I think she'll be fine. As long as she stays healthy, anyway. Again, look at her competitive history...she has always peaked sooner rather than later in the season.

kwanatic said:

Mao's 3A while under RA was pretty good as I recall. The reason Mao's jumps aren't correct right now is b/c she left RA right before 2008 worlds (IIRC) and then ended up going to Tarasova who is NOT a technical coach. I never understood that...if she'd stayed with him who knows how stable her jumps might be?

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In fact, Mao's jumping technique under RA was terrible (lutz, flip and salchow). When Mao went to Tarasova it was simply too late for her to change Mao's technique, two years before the Olympics. Tarasova did what she could, i.e. rely on the jumps that did have good technique, particularly axel and loop. She tried to fix the flutz but didn't manage and as I said it was to late too to try to fix terrible flip and lutz technique that Mao had.

Bartek said:

In fact, Mao's jumping technique under RA was terrible (lutz, flip and salchow). When Mao went to Tarasova it was simply too late for her to change Mao's technique, two years before the Olympics. Tarasova did what she could, i.e. rely on the jumps that did have good technique, particularly axel and loop. She tried to fix the flutz but didn't manage and as I said it was to late too to try to fix terrible flip and lutz technique that Mao had.

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As I recall, Mao still flutzes, but her flip has gotten better, hasn't it?

ForeverFish said:

As I recall, Mao still flutzes, but her flip has gotten better, hasn't it?

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I think so. It's a little bit more fluid now and she has a quicker entry to it, although back in the day when she had that horrid mohawk entry, her flips had very good height. These days, it's a little meh, but finer.

Bartek said:

In fact, Mao's jumping technique under RA was terrible (lutz, flip and salchow). When Mao went to Tarasova it was simply too late for her to change Mao's technique, two years before the Olympics.

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I know RA has a reputation as a technical coach. But what is this really based on? As I remember it, Michelle's jumps didn't really improve under RA. For example, she never did get the elusive 3/3 combo into her programs consistently. It became more about maintaining the triples she already had. I know her lack of improvement under RA was probably due mostly to her ongoing injuries. But what real successes has he had? Rippon was no better last year under RA than he'd been under Yuka/Jason. In fact I think Adam's 3A was actually more consistent the previous season with Jason than it was last year.