Ashley Wagner to train part-time with Rafael Arutyunyan

kwanatic · Jun 26, 2013

Icey said:
I think he will help Ashley with her jumps, but then I remember Mao and wonder.

Mao's 3A while under RA was pretty good as I recall. The reason Mao's jumps aren't correct right now is b/c she left RA right before 2008 worlds (IIRC) and then ended up going to Tarasova who is NOT a technical coach. I never understood that...if she'd stayed with him who knows how stable her jumps might be?

Trewyn · Jun 26, 2013

Predicted by Dave on his video blog, so I've already had some time to get used to the idea that Ashley is going to train with Rafael. I hope they click and that he can keep her calm and focused at some very stressful events coming up!
Interesting to see what people are saying about whether or not Ashley has peaked. I've often wondered myself. Then I remember the 2010-2011 season and how everyone thought her career was over (finishing 6th at Nats) and how she came back incredibly strong after coaching & choreographer change in the off-season. Maybe this new coach and choreographers will once again give her a boost. If she can get the 3-3 consistent, she would definitely be able to compete with Asada/Kostner/Suzuki. Her basic jumping technique has improved a LOT since 2010-2011 so I don't think it's impossible that it improves just that tiny bit more so she can get fully around on the second part of the combo. I'm also slightly less confident about the 2A-3T. In interviews she always claims the 2A is an 'easy' jump for her, but I think I've seen her struggle with it more than her 'nemesis' 3S (downgrades and then it became the jump became part of the 'psychologically rough section' of her Samson & Delilah program after the nasty fall on it in the GPF). Otoh, I have seen her land the combo cleanly several times in Nice (practices), so it *is* possible.

Watching her win a medal at the Olympics would be a dream come true. If I can get one wish granted from the skating gods...

ice coverage · Jun 26, 2013

Jammers said:
I still wonder if he would be willing to travel just once if Ashley does make it to Sochi.

Never say never. But I think Mr. Nicks was making a point of explaining that he had made a well-informed decision not to travel to the Sochi Olympics -- based on first-hand experience of the length and rigors of the Sochi GPF trip. His concern over the extensive journey was/is not merely abstract or theoretical. He told Wagner well in advance so that she would have time to get settled in with a traveling coach (not only for Sochi, but also for the whole season). And so she has chosen one.

ETA, correcting part of what I said above

:

What I should have said is that Mr. Nicks told Wagner well in advance so that she could figure out who her coach(es) would be this season -- he did not assume that a role for him would be part of the new equation.
When Mr. Nicks decided against traveling with Wagner this coming season, he understood that she in turn might decide to part ways with him entirely and train full-time with a new coach who would work with her both at home and at competitions. Mr. Nicks was comfortable with the possibility that he himself would have no hand whatsoever in her Olympic season.
He did tell Wagner that if she wanted to continue training with him at home, he would be fine with that arrangement -- but that she would need to make other plans for a traveling coach.

Selene · Jun 26, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
I'm not optimistic about her prospects for a 3-3 combo either. I agree that she will need to increase her base value to maintain her standing nationally and internationally. I honesty think we have seen the best we are going to see from Ashley and she has had outstanding results the past two years compared to what she was doing before that time.

If I had to guess, I don't think Ashley will get a consistent 3-3 combo either. If she was capable of landing them consistently, she would have added them to her programs by now. I also tend to think she has maxed out her ability. She's a good skater, but she isn't really great at at anything. She's just consistent. Her technical content is respectable, but not outstanding. And her artistry is nothing special. See her disaster of a Sweet Dreams exhibition program for proof of that.

flying camel · Jun 26, 2013

I have to agree with some of the earlier post the double axel/triple toe is just not going to happen. Ashley needs to come up with a combination that is equal to the value of the jump. I think she will be able to land a triple triple, but it may be one of the easier ones such as triple toe/triple toe or triple loop/triple toe. I think the loop/toe would really be her best option.

Skater Boy · Jun 26, 2013

The tripe loop triple toe is a hard one just because of the lack of speed going into the loop.

sk8ingcoach · Jun 26, 2013

i highly doubt her ability to do a 3Lo+3T. As skaterboy ^ said its a hard combo because of lack of speed after loop.

Ashleys best jump is clearly flip and we know she is capable of doing 3F+3T. She just needs to do it in competition

silverlake22 · Jun 27, 2013

Selene said:
If I had to guess, I don't think Ashley will get a consistent 3-3 combo either. If she was capable of landing them consistently, she would have added them to her programs by now. I also tend to think she has maxed out her ability. She's a good skater, but she isn't really great at at anything. She's just consistent. Her technical content is respectable, but not outstanding. And her artistry is nothing special. See her disaster of a Sweet Dreams exhibition program for proof of that.

Well, she could go the Kanako route and get 7 triples into her FS without doing a 3-3 by doing a 2a after one of her triples in sequence and having that be the only axel-jump she does in the program. I guess the only risk with that is that she needs to make sure it actually happens or else one of her passes won't count (in other words, if she were to fall on the jump before the 2a, she'd have to tack a 2a onto another jump in order to to get credit for all her passes). A layout like this might not be a bad idea if the 3-3 isn't happening (though I would have to agree with other posters that I do think she's capable of doing a 3f-3t and getting it ratified/consistent if she can just stick to trying for it every time in competition):

3f
3lo-2a SEQ
3s
x 3f-2t-2lo
x 3lz
x 3t-2t (or 3t-2a SEQ to give her some more points and alleviate the pressure of needing to do a 2a after the 1st loop)
x 3lo

Jammers · Jun 27, 2013

I have to wonder if Ashley is so intent on upping her technical content why she is doing so many shows this summer. It's almost July and she's booked for more shows and all that travel takes it's toll. Makes me wonder when the hard training is going to happen because 3-3's don't happen overnight. Meanwhile Gracie is continuing to work on upping her jumps even more. D/W aren't doing any shows at all because they are preparing for Sochi. I think Ashley needs to start putting in the work now because before you know it the season will already be here.

R.D. · Jun 27, 2013

Well, the other extreme is that you train so hard that you peak too early in the season and burn yourself out by the crucial moment. If anything, it's probably a smart move to not get too intense at the moment. Especially given that throughout her competitive history, she has her best results earlier in the season as opposed to later. 2011-12 was the exception to that rule.

ETA: Anyway, what we've seen tells us absolutely nothing about either's current training habits or schedules. How could we possibly know?

ForeverFish · Jun 27, 2013

Jammers said:
I have to wonder if Ashley is so intent on upping her technical content why she is doing so many shows this summer. It's almost July and she's booked for more shows and all that travel takes it's toll. Makes me wonder when the hard training is going to happen because 3-3's don't happen overnight. Meanwhile Gracie is continuing to work on upping her jumps even more. D/W aren't doing any shows at all because they are preparing for Sochi. I think Ashley needs to start putting in the work now because before you know it the season will already be here.

Gracie is doing The Ice in Japan next month. What other show(s) is/are Ashley participating in?

Icey · Jun 27, 2013

Jammers said:
I have to wonder if Ashley is so intent on upping her technical content why she is doing so many shows this summer. It's almost July and she's booked for more shows and all that travel takes it's toll. Makes me wonder when the hard training is going to happen because 3-3's don't happen overnight. Meanwhile Gracie is continuing to work on upping her jumps even more. D/W aren't doing any shows at all because they are preparing for Sochi. I think Ashley needs to start putting in the work now because before you know it the season will already be here.

With two first rate coaches, she probably needs the money.

I think Nicks has done for her what he can, so I really don't understand her continuing with him. Before it is over, I hope she will settle for one or the other, and I would guess it would be Raphael. What happens if she starts getting mixed or different messages from her two coaches. Now, I don't think this is a good idea---too many cooks stirring the pot.

mskater93 · Jun 27, 2013

Perhaps Mr. Nicks is best for her soft skills (ie mental toughness)

ice coverage · Jun 27, 2013

ForeverFish said:
Gracie is doing The Ice in Japan next month. What other show(s) is/are Ashley participating in?

If you mean upcoming shows for Wagner, I don't remember off the top of my head what is on the docket for her.
But it does seems as if she already has done quite a few since WTT: the full CSOI tour (except for a brief absence to make a whirlwind trip to LA for the pre-Olympic promo shoots); All That Skate; Skate for Hope (for charity); and I forget what else.
I do recall from previous years that Wagner has said that skating in shows really improves her performance skills, so maybe she feels that benefit helps offset the time away from training, etc.

BlackPack · Jun 27, 2013

Jammers said:
I have to wonder if Ashley is so intent on upping her technical content why she is doing so many shows this summer. It's almost July and she's booked for more shows and all that travel takes it's toll. Makes me wonder when the hard training is going to happen because 3-3's don't happen overnight. Meanwhile Gracie is continuing to work on upping her jumps even more. D/W aren't doing any shows at all because they are preparing for Sochi. I think Ashley needs to start putting in the work now because before you know it the season will already be here.

Dave and Jenny said that D&W can afford to skip the shows, because they have sponsors. Ashley doesn't and has to find income to support herself somehow.

ice coverage · Jun 27, 2013

BlackPack said:
Dave and Jenny said that D&W can afford to skip the shows, because they have sponsors. Ashley doesn't and has to find income to support herself somehow.

FWIW, Wagner has at least two sponsors: Nike (no less) and Pandora Jewelry.

That is not to say that income from skating in shows would not be important to her.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 27, 2013

Icey said:
I think Nicks has done for her what he can, so I really don't understand her continuing with him.

I understand your point, but she has had terrific results under his tutelage. She won't necessarily improve her results by changing coaches, particularly if he has helped her with her mental toughness. If she simply maintains her level she'll have two more GP medals, a top 2 finish at Nationals, and trips to the Worlds and Olympics by the end of next season. There is some upside but an awful lot of downside possibilities from making any drastic changes.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 27, 2013

golden411 said:
If you mean upcoming shows for Wagner, I don't remember off the top of my head what is on the docket for her.
But it does seems as if she already has done quite a few since WTT: the full CSOI tour (except for a brief absence to make a whirlwind trip to LA for the pre-Olympic promo shoots); All That Skate; Skate for Hope (for charity); and I forget what else.
I do recall from previous years that Wagner has said that skating in shows really improves her performance skills, so maybe she feels that benefit helps offset the time away from training, etc.

It's understandable that she wants to continue to keep her name out there too. Evan is a reigning OGM and people have almost forgotten about him, so even talented skaters can have a very short shelf life when it comes to professional opportunities.

BlackPack · Jun 27, 2013

golden411 said:
FWIW, Wagner has at least two sponsors: Nike (no less) and Pandora Jewelry.

That is not to say that income from skating in shows would not be important to her.

That is good to hear. So after the shows, she'll start training in earnest in August? 2 months to Skate America? Sounds scary especially if her programs aren't well put together yet.

R.D. · Jun 27, 2013

So she might be a little bumpy in October, but come January, she'll be right where she needs to be.

Ashley Wagner to train part-time with Rafael Arutyunyan

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