Makaraova's career if she had medalled at the 2011 Worlds | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Makaraova's career if she had medalled at the 2011 Worlds

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Also a point of this discussion is what would have happened to makarova's career and I think all can agree that nothing would have changed at all!! She would just be bronze medalist whose career ended in december 2012.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Gurl, a very talented skater should have at least one talent. Everyone, except Johnny Weir, doesn't think being a Russian is a talent.

You really harshly criticize and even excessively bash alot of the good skaters in the World for someone whose username is in support of someone who even at her best was nothing more than a generic "good" skater herself.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Flatt has all the triples. Reliably put out 3x3 and 7 triples LP. On top of that, a good student. Yeah, you can't say the same about a lot of them.

Ksenia did not achieve 1/10th of what Flatt did in her life. And probably will not achieve anything in the future, either. So, that is that.

As any drag queen would say, no T no shade. :biggrin:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Comparing Flatt's record to Makarova's:

US Nationals - Flatt won in 2010 and was 2nd in 2011, 2009 and 2008.
Makarova competed at US Regionals and Sectionals but never made it to Nationals.

Russian Nationals - Makarova won in 2010, when her only real competition was Leonova (Tuk and Sot were 13); Ksenia was 2nd in the SP and 3rd in the FS.

JGP:
Flatt competed one season. 1 gold, 1 silver JGP, JGPF silver.
Makarova competed two seasons in the JGP. 2 4th places, 1 silver, 1 bronze, JGPF 4th

GP:
Flatt Competed in 9 GPs. from 2008 to 2010, she won 4 silver medals and had two 4th places; after her injury, she placed 9th in two events and 10th in another. She competed in one GPF and finished 6th.

Makarova competed in 6 GPs. She won one silver medal in 2010; after that, she had one 5th, one 6th, and three 7ths. She never made the GPF.

Junior Worlds
Flatt won Junior Worlds 2008.
Makarova never competed at JW.

4CC/Euros
Flatt competed in two 4CCs. She was 4th in 2011 and 7th in 2009.
Makarova competed in 3 Euros. She was 9th in 2010, 4th in 2011 and 6th in 2012.

Olympics
Flatt was 7th in 2010; Makarova was 10th

Worlds
Flatt was 5th in 2009, 9th in 2010 and 12th in 2011 (injured)
Makarova was 8th in 2010, 7th in 2011 and 9th in 2012.

Flatt started out quite well, with promising results, but chronic injuries cut her career short.
Makarova started at a mid level and never rose above that.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Makarova beat the incumbent Russian champ when she won! Who cares if sitnikovas and tuktamisheva were only 13? They had every chance to win and didn't when they were near their career bests! Their ages really mean nothing. Makarova beat them. Makarova's 2011 and 2012 sp was one of the best of the quad!!! That was just a total creative peak of 2010 to 2014!!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Flatt has all the triples. Reliably put out 3x3 and 7 triples LP. On top of that, a good student. Yeah, you can't say the same about a lot of them.

Ksenia did not achieve 1/10th of what Flatt did in her life. And probably will not achieve anything in the future, either. So, that is that.

As any drag queen would say, no T no shade. :biggrin:


Both have been to 1 Olympics, been to several Worlds, never medalled at a Worlds, never won a grand prix and have only won 1 B international as Seniors. Flatt's best Worlds is a 5th and Makarova's a 7th. Both have been top 10 in 3 of their 4 World and Olympic appearances. I dont see a big difference, other than Flatt having a better junior career.

Anyway you are relentless in your dissing of Ashley Wagner, who has eclipsed Flatt's career for sure if she makes it to Sochi (which she almost certainly will), and probably has already for that matter. Many other skaters as well. I am making a general observation, not just specifically Makarova. It is funny to see a diehard fan of a generic good skater (who many skating fans view as mediocre) like Flatt rip everyone who isnt a Yu Na Kim or Michelle Kwan apart as you seem to do. I didnt point that out until now to be polite but I couldnt resist any longer.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Ksenia definitely could have gotten the points to win the bronze if she skated better, and would have for sure if she was clean. Breaking down the points she lost:

Triple loop-double toe she had planned past the halfway mark. Past the halfway mark this would be worth 6.93 points. She gained only 0.68 for the element. Lets say roughly 0.7 GOE and she gains 7 points there. Then she lost another point for falling so now 8 points.

Triple salchow-double toe past the halfway mark was discounted since Ksenia apparently forget her fallen triple loop counted as a sequence, so adding on a double toe that she missed when she fell on the triple loop was a no no. A solo triple salchow done well past the halfway point would be another roughly 6 points.

The back end of her 3 toe-3 toe was downgraded and got 0.5 -GOE. Even getting 0 GOE and credited clean she gains another over 3 points, and just a fairly good jump she would gain 4 points here.

So that is already 18 points, enough for the bronze without going crazy on GOE points. She would also have atleast a couple points more in PCS had she skated cleanly, so probably atleast 20 points more, and she missed the bronze by less than 18. She could possibly even afford a mistake and win the bronze, if it was a small mistake.

Leonova missed a jump and missed the bronze by a point, and Leonova was over a point behind Makarova in the short. Leonova had more tech. difficulty in the long but the judges gave Makarova higher GOE and PCS than Leonova in the short when both were clean, so their scoring potential was probably similar in the LP. Makarova was obviously considered the Russian Senior #1 at the time over Leonova.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Poor Makarova's career was probably not controlled too much by her but her Russian Counterparts. Is she still competing or is she retired? Leonova and her have reinvent and fast. But with only two spots to world's and olympics it doesn't look good. Still not one Russian lady has shown she is ready to lead the team. Is it Liza? Adelina? Julia? Those three come to mind but there are other girls too =- Polina's, Sofia, Ksenia, Elena I think Rad is too young though.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Makarova has decided to take the entire Olympic season off to "recover". Coming back after Sochi with a toe, salchow and 2a would be strange! No leaders are around! It's a free for all. No one can be considered the leader.
 

chuckm

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Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
It is certainly odd for a skater to take the Olympic season off. IMO, the reason Makarova is doing it is she has zero chance at a Sochi berth, so she might as well skip the season and the embarrassment of being left out. If she wants to continue, she has to work on rotating her jumps, get the flip and loop more consistent, and master the lutz. Otherwise, she will still have all those young talented skaters skating rings around her after Sochi. And the next wave of wunderkinder are making their debuts in the JGP this fall. Stay tuned.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Both have been to 1 Olympics, been to several Worlds, never medalled at a Worlds, never won a grand prix and have only won 1 B international as Seniors. Flatt's best Worlds is a 5th and Makarova's a 7th. Both have been top 10 in 3 of their 4 World and Olympic appearances. I dont see a big difference, other than Flatt having a better junior career.
Flatt was a Jr. World champion. Sidelined by politics with her placement at the Olympics. Anyway, Flatt is a much better skater than Makarova could ever hope to be. That's all. I have never said Flatt was a "very talented skater" I merely pointed out Makarova was NOT a "very talented skater"

Anyway you are relentless in your dissing of Ashley Wagner, who has eclipsed Flatt's career for sure if she makes it to Sochi (which she almost certainly will), and probably has already for that matter.
Ashley was never a contender, lost to Flatt every single time from 2005 until Flatt completely broke down in 2011. Not exactly stellar career by any mean. Then again, politics got her to be US #1, got her to win Nats last year. Who cares about this girl? I don't. I don't think she's good. Don't care for her. I don't relentlessly diss Ashley until she got in my face with her win. Because again, don't care about her.

It is funny to see a diehard fan of a generic good skater (who many skating fans view as mediocre) like Flatt rip everyone who isnt a Yu Na Kim or Michelle Kwan apart as you seem to do. I didnt point that out until now to be polite but I couldnt resist any longer.
Well, Flatt doesn't just have skating going on for her, that's the difference between Flatt and the rest. They live and die at the ice rink, which is tragic. I know her short comings. I've been fair with all of my assessments.
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Pity that Makarova isn't competing. I loved her recent programs even when she messed everything up.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Flatt was merely a placeholder for the US team until someone more talented came along and took over from her. Alissa was always inconsistent and Mirai who looked to be the future in 2010 hasn't panned out. Thank goodness someone like Ashley did come around and get it together because a couple more years of Flatt being the US number 1 would have been awful and put us even more behind the Japanese and maybe even the Russians. Flatt had a nice career but she wasn't championship material. Yes Rachael has college but i think she knew she was getting passed up and wasn't going to be a contender anymore.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Rachael's career fizzled out because she had chronic back and leg injuries, not because she didn't have the talent. Rachael delayed her college career for a full year, hoping she could recover from her injuries, but it was not to be.

She is a brilliant student and someday will be an excellent physician, so perhaps it's for the best that she couldn't continue with her skating.
 

yunabestever

Spectator
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Flatt was merely a placeholder for the US team until someone more talented came along and took over from her. Alissa was always inconsistent and Mirai who looked to be the future in 2010 hasn't panned out. Thank goodness someone like Ashley did come around and get it together because a couple more years of Flatt being the US number 1 would have been awful and put us even more behind the Japanese and maybe even the Russians. Flatt had a nice career but she wasn't championship material. Yes Rachael has college but i think she knew she was getting passed up and wasn't going to be a contender anymore.

Yeah I agree. Even had she not slumped she was finished starting in 2012. Wagner is a better skater than Flatt ever was, Gold has all the potential in the World, and Czisny and Nagasu at their best are capable of far more than Flatt was too. Those who think she was going to continue as a top 2 American had she not been injured or gone to school are delusional.
 

russell30

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Unless she skates for Belarus, Latvia or Ukraine, it will be hard for Ksenia to represent Russia again, Hip Injuries take long to recuperate so I wish Ksenia a speedy recovery. Like someone before me mentioned her programs to date have been a joy to watch despite the mistakes in the Long Program, but Ksenia's SP's have always been outstanding.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Except If your kostner and Mao! Lol! True there should be a mandatory flip or lutz in the sp!!

Amen to that. A 3-3 and a 3F or 3Z attempt should be mandatory in the ladies' SP at this point. I know edge calls weren't as severe but remember the good ole days when you needed a 3Z and 3F in the SP to be considered one of the top skaters in the World, along with two 3Z in the FS? :disapp:

I felt bad for Ksenia, but never considered her a powerhouse. Kudos to her for having one of the more reliable 3T-3Ts. I hope she'll still be somewhat involved in the Sochi Olympics.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I felt bad for Ksenia, but never considered her a powerhouse.

None of the Russian girls are a powerhouse. They are just hyped as if they are. Makarova actually helped Russian keep 3 spots, which the current crop apparently are unable to even do that.

Leonova of all people still has the best World results of any Russian lady by far (in the post Slutskaya years). For all we know the best of Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaia might only match her top World results, a silver and a 4th as the best two of whoever ends up the best of those. Or maybe none of them will even reach that. Of course it is possible atleast one of them does better than that, but none of them looks like the next Slutskaya right now. I wont judge Radionova until she atleast makes her Senior debut.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Flatt was merely a placeholder for the US team until someone more talented came along and took over from her. Alissa was always inconsistent and Mirai who looked to be the future in 2010 hasn't panned out.

I don't think this was necessarily the case. Flatt earned her results for the most part, maybe getting a bit of a bump due to her consistency. Her decline in results was due to her jumps getting worse, not the other skaters getting better. I think at her best Rachel would be on the podium at Nationals the past two years, probably in the bronze position.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
I don't think this was necessarily the case. Flatt earned her results for the most part, maybe getting a bit of a bump due to her consistency. Her decline in results was due to her jumps getting worse, not the other skaters getting better. I think at her best Rachel would be on the podium at Nationals the past two years, probably in the bronze position.

Well bronze would still be lower than the 1st and 2nd place she was regularly getting, and wouldnt have even gone to the last 2 Worlds. So you are essentialy admitting even at her best she would no longer be where she was, and so in that sense she was still a placeholder until something better came along.
 
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