Gurl, a very talented skater should have at least one talent. Everyone, except Johnny Weir, doesn't think being a Russian is a talent.
Except Makarova never skated her FS perfectly.
Originally Posted by Blades of Passion
At Worlds 2011, she was 3rd in the SP and 9th in the FS with 3f, 3t+3t<, 3lo, 3lo<<↓+sq, 2a+2t+2t, 3s*+2t*, 2a, with a TES of 46.52. She was 7th, 17 points out of 3rd place overall. Even if she skated cleanly (and she never could do that, with the URs), she wouldn't make up that 17 point difference.
Skating is art, if you let it be.
...but that was the whole point of discussion. IF she had skated her FS perfectly, would she have won a medal? The answer is definitely yes. People are saying she didn't have enough tech content to medal even if she was perfect, but she did. Her technical score potentially could have been almost 17 points higher if everything was delivered clean with no < and her PCS surely would have gone up with that kind of performance as well, which puts her into the Bronze medal position.
Originally Posted by chuckm
Kostner won bronze at 2011 Worlds. No way would Makarova get higher PCS scores than Carolina, even if Ksenia was clean (that's about a 90-1 shot) and Carolina wasn't.
Skating is art, if you let it be.
Makarova wouldn't get higher PCS, she would get higher technical. Plus she already had a lead in the SP.
Also a point of this discussion is what would have happened to makarova's career and I think all can agree that nothing would have changed at all!! She would just be bronze medalist whose career ended in december 2012.
You really harshly criticize and even excessively bash alot of the good skaters in the World for someone whose username is in support of someone who even at her best was nothing more than a generic "good" skater herself.
Originally Posted by FlattFan
Flatt has all the triples. Reliably put out 3x3 and 7 triples LP. On top of that, a good student. Yeah, you can't say the same about a lot of them.
Ksenia did not achieve 1/10th of what Flatt did in her life. And probably will not achieve anything in the future, either. So, that is that.
As any drag queen would say, no T no shade.
Comparing Flatt's record to Makarova's:
US Nationals - Flatt won in 2010 and was 2nd in 2011, 2009 and 2008.
Makarova competed at US Regionals and Sectionals but never made it to Nationals.
Russian Nationals - Makarova won in 2010, when her only real competition was Leonova (Tuk and Sot were 13); Ksenia was 2nd in the SP and 3rd in the FS.
Flatt competed one season. 1 gold, 1 silver JGP, JGPF silver.
Makarova competed two seasons in the JGP. 2 4th places, 1 silver, 1 bronze, JGPF 4th
Flatt Competed in 9 GPs. from 2008 to 2010, she won 4 silver medals and had two 4th places; after her injury, she placed 9th in two events and 10th in another. She competed in one GPF and finished 6th.
Makarova competed in 6 GPs. She won one silver medal in 2010; after that, she had one 5th, one 6th, and three 7ths. She never made the GPF.
Flatt won Junior Worlds 2008.
Makarova never competed at JW.
Flatt competed in two 4CCs. She was 4th in 2011 and 7th in 2009.
Makarova competed in 3 Euros. She was 9th in 2010, 4th in 2011 and 6th in 2012.
Flatt was 7th in 2010; Makarova was 10th
Flatt was 5th in 2009, 9th in 2010 and 12th in 2011 (injured)
Makarova was 8th in 2010, 7th in 2011 and 9th in 2012.
Flatt started out quite well, with promising results, but chronic injuries cut her career short.
Makarova started at a mid level and never rose above that.
Makarova beat the incumbent Russian champ when she won! Who cares if sitnikovas and tuktamisheva were only 13? They had every chance to win and didn't when they were near their career bests! Their ages really mean nothing. Makarova beat them. Makarova's 2011 and 2012 sp was one of the best of the quad!!! That was just a total creative peak of 2010 to 2014!!
Originally Posted by FlattFan
Both have been to 1 Olympics, been to several Worlds, never medalled at a Worlds, never won a grand prix and have only won 1 B international as Seniors. Flatt's best Worlds is a 5th and Makarova's a 7th. Both have been top 10 in 3 of their 4 World and Olympic appearances. I dont see a big difference, other than Flatt having a better junior career.
Anyway you are relentless in your dissing of Ashley Wagner, who has eclipsed Flatt's career for sure if she makes it to Sochi (which she almost certainly will), and probably has already for that matter. Many other skaters as well. I am making a general observation, not just specifically Makarova. It is funny to see a diehard fan of a generic good skater (who many skating fans view as mediocre) like Flatt rip everyone who isnt a Yu Na Kim or Michelle Kwan apart as you seem to do. I didnt point that out until now to be polite but I couldnt resist any longer.
Ksenia definitely could have gotten the points to win the bronze if she skated better, and would have for sure if she was clean. Breaking down the points she lost:
Triple loop-double toe she had planned past the halfway mark. Past the halfway mark this would be worth 6.93 points. She gained only 0.68 for the element. Lets say roughly 0.7 GOE and she gains 7 points there. Then she lost another point for falling so now 8 points.
Triple salchow-double toe past the halfway mark was discounted since Ksenia apparently forget her fallen triple loop counted as a sequence, so adding on a double toe that she missed when she fell on the triple loop was a no no. A solo triple salchow done well past the halfway point would be another roughly 6 points.
The back end of her 3 toe-3 toe was downgraded and got 0.5 -GOE. Even getting 0 GOE and credited clean she gains another over 3 points, and just a fairly good jump she would gain 4 points here.
So that is already 18 points, enough for the bronze without going crazy on GOE points. She would also have atleast a couple points more in PCS had she skated cleanly, so probably atleast 20 points more, and she missed the bronze by less than 18. She could possibly even afford a mistake and win the bronze, if it was a small mistake.
Leonova missed a jump and missed the bronze by a point, and Leonova was over a point behind Makarova in the short. Leonova had more tech. difficulty in the long but the judges gave Makarova higher GOE and PCS than Leonova in the short when both were clean, so their scoring potential was probably similar in the LP. Makarova was obviously considered the Russian Senior #1 at the time over Leonova.
Poor Makarova's career was probably not controlled too much by her but her Russian Counterparts. Is she still competing or is she retired? Leonova and her have reinvent and fast. But with only two spots to world's and olympics it doesn't look good. Still not one Russian lady has shown she is ready to lead the team. Is it Liza? Adelina? Julia? Those three come to mind but there are other girls too =- Polina's, Sofia, Ksenia, Elena I think Rad is too young though.
Makarova has decided to take the entire Olympic season off to "recover". Coming back after Sochi with a toe, salchow and 2a would be strange! No leaders are around! It's a free for all. No one can be considered the leader.
It is certainly odd for a skater to take the Olympic season off. IMO, the reason Makarova is doing it is she has zero chance at a Sochi berth, so she might as well skip the season and the embarrassment of being left out. If she wants to continue, she has to work on rotating her jumps, get the flip and loop more consistent, and master the lutz. Otherwise, she will still have all those young talented skaters skating rings around her after Sochi. And the next wave of wunderkinder are making their debuts in the JGP this fall. Stay tuned.