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Thread: Makaraova's career if she had medalled at the 2011 Worlds

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Both have been to 1 Olympics, been to several Worlds, never medalled at a Worlds, never won a grand prix and have only won 1 B international as Seniors. Flatt's best Worlds is a 5th and Makarova's a 7th. Both have been top 10 in 3 of their 4 World and Olympic appearances. I dont see a big difference, other than Flatt having a better junior career.
    Flatt was a Jr. World champion. Sidelined by politics with her placement at the Olympics. Anyway, Flatt is a much better skater than Makarova could ever hope to be. That's all. I have never said Flatt was a "very talented skater" I merely pointed out Makarova was NOT a "very talented skater"

    Anyway you are relentless in your dissing of Ashley Wagner, who has eclipsed Flatt's career for sure if she makes it to Sochi (which she almost certainly will), and probably has already for that matter.
    Ashley was never a contender, lost to Flatt every single time from 2005 until Flatt completely broke down in 2011. Not exactly stellar career by any mean. Then again, politics got her to be US #1, got her to win Nats last year. Who cares about this girl? I don't. I don't think she's good. Don't care for her. I don't relentlessly diss Ashley until she got in my face with her win. Because again, don't care about her.

    It is funny to see a diehard fan of a generic good skater (who many skating fans view as mediocre) like Flatt rip everyone who isnt a Yu Na Kim or Michelle Kwan apart as you seem to do. I didnt point that out until now to be polite but I couldnt resist any longer.
    Well, Flatt doesn't just have skating going on for her, that's the difference between Flatt and the rest. They live and die at the ice rink, which is tragic. I know her short comings. I've been fair with all of my assessments.

  2. #32
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Pity that Makarova isn't competing. I loved her recent programs even when she messed everything up.

  3. #33
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    Flatt was merely a placeholder for the US team until someone more talented came along and took over from her. Alissa was always inconsistent and Mirai who looked to be the future in 2010 hasn't panned out. Thank goodness someone like Ashley did come around and get it together because a couple more years of Flatt being the US number 1 would have been awful and put us even more behind the Japanese and maybe even the Russians. Flatt had a nice career but she wasn't championship material. Yes Rachael has college but i think she knew she was getting passed up and wasn't going to be a contender anymore.

  4. #34
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    Rachael's career fizzled out because she had chronic back and leg injuries, not because she didn't have the talent. Rachael delayed her college career for a full year, hoping she could recover from her injuries, but it was not to be.

    She is a brilliant student and someday will be an excellent physician, so perhaps it's for the best that she couldn't continue with her skating.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Flatt was merely a placeholder for the US team until someone more talented came along and took over from her. Alissa was always inconsistent and Mirai who looked to be the future in 2010 hasn't panned out. Thank goodness someone like Ashley did come around and get it together because a couple more years of Flatt being the US number 1 would have been awful and put us even more behind the Japanese and maybe even the Russians. Flatt had a nice career but she wasn't championship material. Yes Rachael has college but i think she knew she was getting passed up and wasn't going to be a contender anymore.
    Yeah I agree. Even had she not slumped she was finished starting in 2012. Wagner is a better skater than Flatt ever was, Gold has all the potential in the World, and Czisny and Nagasu at their best are capable of far more than Flatt was too. Those who think she was going to continue as a top 2 American had she not been injured or gone to school are delusional.

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    Unless she skates for Belarus, Latvia or Ukraine, it will be hard for Ksenia to represent Russia again, Hip Injuries take long to recuperate so I wish Ksenia a speedy recovery. Like someone before me mentioned her programs to date have been a joy to watch despite the mistakes in the Long Program, but Ksenia's SP's have always been outstanding.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Except If your kostner and Mao! Lol! True there should be a mandatory flip or lutz in the sp!!
    Amen to that. A 3-3 and a 3F or 3Z attempt should be mandatory in the ladies' SP at this point. I know edge calls weren't as severe but remember the good ole days when you needed a 3Z and 3F in the SP to be considered one of the top skaters in the World, along with two 3Z in the FS?

    I felt bad for Ksenia, but never considered her a powerhouse. Kudos to her for having one of the more reliable 3T-3Ts. I hope she'll still be somewhat involved in the Sochi Olympics.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I felt bad for Ksenia, but never considered her a powerhouse.
    None of the Russian girls are a powerhouse. They are just hyped as if they are. Makarova actually helped Russian keep 3 spots, which the current crop apparently are unable to even do that.

    Leonova of all people still has the best World results of any Russian lady by far (in the post Slutskaya years). For all we know the best of Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaia might only match her top World results, a silver and a 4th as the best two of whoever ends up the best of those. Or maybe none of them will even reach that. Of course it is possible atleast one of them does better than that, but none of them looks like the next Slutskaya right now. I wont judge Radionova until she atleast makes her Senior debut.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Flatt was merely a placeholder for the US team until someone more talented came along and took over from her. Alissa was always inconsistent and Mirai who looked to be the future in 2010 hasn't panned out.
    I don't think this was necessarily the case. Flatt earned her results for the most part, maybe getting a bit of a bump due to her consistency. Her decline in results was due to her jumps getting worse, not the other skaters getting better. I think at her best Rachel would be on the podium at Nationals the past two years, probably in the bronze position.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I don't think this was necessarily the case. Flatt earned her results for the most part, maybe getting a bit of a bump due to her consistency. Her decline in results was due to her jumps getting worse, not the other skaters getting better. I think at her best Rachel would be on the podium at Nationals the past two years, probably in the bronze position.
    Well bronze would still be lower than the 1st and 2nd place she was regularly getting, and wouldnt have even gone to the last 2 Worlds. So you are essentialy admitting even at her best she would no longer be where she was, and so in that sense she was still a placeholder until something better came along.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    None of the Russian girls are a powerhouse. They are just hyped as if they are. Makarova actually helped Russian keep 3 spots, which the current crop apparently are unable to even do that.

    Leonova of all people still has the best World results of any Russian lady by far (in the post Slutskaya years). For all we know the best of Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaia might only match her top World results, a silver and a 4th as the best two of whoever ends up the best of those. Or maybe none of them will even reach that. Of course it is possible atleast one of them does better than that, but none of them looks like the next Slutskaya right now. I wont judge Radionova until she atleast makes her Senior debut.
    Well that hype is DEAD! It's 2006-2007 all over again.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Well bronze would still be lower than the 1st and 2nd place she was regularly getting, and wouldnt have even gone to the last 2 Worlds. So you are essentialy admitting even at her best she would no longer be where she was, and so in that sense she was still a placeholder until something better came along.
    Well there's a lot of "what ifs". If she was healthy we might have never lost 3 spots when she had her poor finish a few years ago. Nonetheless, I don't see how "placeholder" applies. Everyone gets booted when something better comes along, so Rachel wasn't unique in that sense.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Well there's a lot of "what ifs". If she was healthy we might have never lost 3 spots when she had her poor finish a few years ago. Nonetheless, I don't see how "placeholder" applies. Everyone gets booted when something better comes along, so Rachel wasn't unique in that sense.
    The point of the previous posters I believe was she was never going to be a medal contender at the World level. The USFSA were also never comfortable with the idea of her as their #1. She only won Nationals once and placed 2nd 3 times, despite that 2 of those 3 times she arguably should have won, but even they werent comfortable with her as their #1 skater and were always on the search for anyone better, be that a talented shaky veteran like Czisny who can barely jump, an enigmatic frequent URing Nagasu, or so on.

    Wagner might never medal at Worlds, but she is atleast a contender, and has already had more success than Flatt has had in her career. Flatt's biggest international win is the Nelberhorn or something like that. She couldnt even win a regular grand prix in her career. She never won a major senior ISU medal, not even at an event like Four Continents which Wagner has won. Gold's career is likely to be the best of any U.S women since Kwan before too long. Czisny has also had a much more successful career than Flatt on the whole, despite her incredibly erratic and injury prone career.

  14. #44
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    Rachael with 3 triples in the SP, 7 triples in the LP will not lose to either Ashley or Gold in 2012. Gold had about 10 points to make up. Ashley was a hot mess in the LP.
    Rachael would have won last year.

    In 2011, Ashley was not good in the SP, made 2 mistakes in the LP, would not have won over a clean Rachael.

    Don't be ridiculous, she was better than most of them, and was more consistent than they are.

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