Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 146

Thread: The Quadruple Jump for the Ladies in Sochi

  1. #16
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,305
    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    No this rule doesn't only apply for one skater, but for every skater in the world who is willing to take the risk!
    every skater? yeah right..

    i think the japanese fed made a big mistake of politicking.. they should have pushed 3 loop jump and made it mandatory instead.. and forget 3A...

  2. #17
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Olderbear View Post
    What's the "SP rule" that you are referring to?
    Doing a triple axel as the axel I believe!

  3. #18
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Olderbear View Post
    What's the "SP rule" that you are referring to?
    Can somebody explain what this "SP rule" is and how that rule advantages one particular skater over others? (not just guessing but with solid evidences.)

  4. #19
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Saba View Post
    Can somebody explain what this "SP rule" is and how that rule advantages one particular skater over others? (not just guessing but with solid evidences.)
    The SP rule was passed after the Vancouver Olympics which allowed ladies to do the 3Axel as the solo Axel jump in the Short Program. Before that rule, ladies could only do a solo 2Axel in the SP, which meant that to do a 3Axel a skater had to do it either in combination (3Axel+2Toe) or a solo triple out of steps.

    What this rule does is make it easier to fit a 3Axel into the SP and maximize that skater's BV, as it allows a skater to fit 3 triples in the SP 1) without a triple-triple AND 2) without having to do the 3Axel out of steps or in combination. For example, see Mao Asada's SP at the 2013 4CC. In other words, it is advantageous to a skater who cannot do a triple-triple but is capable of a 3Axel. Guess which lady is that?

  5. #20
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,855
    Of course no rule is really designed for one skater but because Mao is the only lady in the world doing The triple axel and the rules change to say a skater can do a 2a or 3a as the axel jump and well as 3/3 and another triple that can be seen as only benefitting Mao! She's the only lady doing a 3a!! But all ladies could be trying 3a!

  6. #21
    Custom Title Cherryy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    259
    Quote Originally Posted by Saba View Post
    Can somebody explain what this "SP rule" is and how that rule advantages one particular skater over others? (not just guessing but with solid evidences.)
    This rule says that it is possible for a lady to do a 3axel as the axel type jump in the SP. Previously 2axel was required with no possibility of doing a 3 axel (btw would that 3axel just had been scaled as an invalid element?).
    Some people claim that only Mao Asada benefits from this rule as she's the only lady currently trying to jump a 3axel. In my opinion it's not true since everyone can take the practise the jump, right? I think it was a wise move from ISU, since it may encourage more ladies to try to go for the 3axel in the SP.

    Why so many feel the need to critize this change?

  7. #22
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    The SP rule was passed after the Vancouver Olympics which allowed ladies to do the 3Axel as the solo Axel jump in the Short Program. Before that rule, ladies could only do a solo 2Axel in the SP, which meant that to do a 3Axel a skater had to do it either in combination (3Axel+2Toe) or a solo triple out of steps.

    What this rule does is make it easier to fit a 3Axel into the SP and maximize that skater's BV, as it allows a skater to fit 3 triples in the SP 1) without a triple-triple AND 2) without having to do the 3Axel out of steps or in combination. For example, see Mao Asada's SP at the 2013 4CC. In other words, it is advantageous to a skater who cannot do a triple-triple but is capable of a 3Axel. Guess which lady is that?
    This explanation is so good! Also good is pointing out how 3a out of steps forced Mao to do 3a combos! It was judged to risky to do 3a out of steps.

  8. #23
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    4
    [QUOTE=Krislite;748652]The SP rule was passed after the Vancouver Olympics which allowed ladies to do the 3Axel as the solo Axel jump in the Short Program. Before that rule, ladies could only do a solo 2Axel in the SP, which meant that to do a 3Axel a skater had to do it either in combination (3Axel+2Toe) or a solo triple out of steps.

    Thanks for the information. One more thing that I still don't understand. So the previous rule did not allow a skater to do 3 Axel (as solo) but do only 2 Axel in the SP even when she or he could do 3 Axel? Why? What was the logic behind that rule?

  9. #24
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherryy View Post
    This rule says that it is possible for a lady to do a 3axel as the axel type jump in the SP. Previously 2axel was required with no possibility of doing a 3 axel (btw would that 3axel just had been scaled as an invalid element?).
    Some people claim that only Mao Asada benefits from this rule as she's the only lady currently trying to jump a 3axel. In my opinion it's not true since everyone can take the practise the jump, right? I think it was a wise move from ISU, since it may encourage more ladies to try to go for the 3axel in the SP.

    Why so many feel the need to critize this change?
    Misconception. The 3Axel was always allowed for ladies in the SP before this new rule. It simply had to be done either in combination or out of steps. Mao Asada did it as a combination in Vancouver (3Axel+2Toe).

    In any case, this is getting off-topic and dangerously into Mao vs. Yuna territory...

  10. #25
    Custom Title Cherryy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    259
    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Misconception. The 3Axel was always allowed for ladies in the SP before this new rule. It simply had to be done either in combination or out of steps. Mao Asada did it as a combination in Vancouver (3Axel+2Toe).

    In any case, this is getting off-topic and dangerously into Mao vs. Yuna territory...
    Right, sorry for not saying clearly. I meant as the axel type jump, so if a skater did 3Lz-3T, 3S out of steps and 3A as the axel-type jump, how would 3A be scored?

    To get back on topic: all of us agreed nobody will probably try a quad in Sochi but what about 2018 Olympics? Are there any jumping beans that could practise it? Do you think maybe Gracie after trying it in practices for a few years will put it in her programs?

  11. #26
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,552
    ^Whether ladies will go for the quad depends on whether they feel they need it to get an edge and they're sufficiently skilled at jumping to have a realistic chance of executing it in competition.

    Mao goes for the 3Axel for similar reasons. Gracie is good enough a jumper that she can probably pull it off and she's just at that level where it might give her the winning edge. If anyone's gonna go for the quad it would be her. None of the current crop of Russian jumping beans seem capable of it, though. They rotate fast but their jumps are rather tiny.

  12. #27
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,855
    3a would have been invalid under the old rules if that was the axel jump. Just a total overjump!

    No ladies are going to do quads! Only one does 3a!! Too hard too risky no guarantee of it even benefitting you if done!!

  13. #28
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    ^Whether ladies will go for the quad depends on whether they feel they need it to get an edge and they're sufficiently skilled at jumping to have a realistic chance of executing it in competition.

    Mao goes for the 3Axel for similar reasons. Gracie is good enough a jumper that she can probably pull it off and she's just at that level where it might give her the winning edge. If anyone's gonna go for the quad it would be her. None of the current crop of Russian jumping beans seem capable of it, though. They rotate fast but their jumps are rather tiny.
    Gracie being the premiere jumping bean in skating and it's still not likely ever going to be tried by her! It's just not ever going to be tried again!

  14. #29
    ~high art~
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    636
    The 3A rule is fair. Actually it is ridiculous that the rule says you cannot attempt a more difficult jump.

  15. #30
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    The 3A rule is fair. Actually it is ridiculous that the rule says you cannot attempt a more difficult jump.
    Why? This goes back to the reason why the SP is much more restricted from the start. Why only a 2-jump combo? Why only 3 jump passes? Why a solo jump out of steps? Why must ladies do a layback? Why can't a skater repeat the same jump except in the combination? Why require an Axel jump? Surely these are equally unfair if you think limiting skaters to a 2Axel is also unfair.

    The SP is very specific and technical for a reason. The SP doesn't allow a quad for the ladies either. The fact that a skater is capable of more difficulty is not sufficient reason to allow it in the SP. Back in the 1988 Olympics even the men were required to do a double Flip out of steps during the short program!

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •