Czisny preparing for one last run at Olympic glory | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Czisny preparing for one last run at Olympic glory

Pepe Nero

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Mirai will be 24 years and 10 months in 2018. She would have no chance.

That's crazy! I have to strongly agree with Blades of Passion on this.

A couple months from turning 25, in ladies amateur singles skating that is definitely old, and for someone who had great success in their mid teens it is really old. How many have success at that age. Even Kwan was considerably past her prime by then. Butyrskaya, Kostner, Arakawa and Slutskaya are the only exceptions in modern times, and Butyrskaya and Arakawa were only good at that age and beyond since they were mediocre international level skaters until atleast 22.

Even if one accepts the rest of what you say, that is too many exceptions to count as exceptional. Moreover, one could hardly deny that Nagasu (and Czisny), have, more or less, to this point been mediocre international level skaters, in terms of their placements.

Nagasu is too young, in my opinion, for it to be appropriate for anyone to speculate on what potential her amateur career has left.

In Czisny's case, it is, I think, extremely arrogant and demonstrates a lack of awareness of the limits of one's own knowledge for internet commenters to say what she "should" do, as though they know better than she (and her coaches) what her potential is; it implies that she is a fool. This is my general response to anyone who says "skater so-and-so needs to retire!".

I would never send anyone less than the best available to an Olympics or worlds.

What I wish is that we could take "what we believe" out of the equation altogether. That is why I have never complained about the rule, let the skaters earn their spots at nationals. That takes "belief" off the table. No need to manipulate anything.

"What we believe" is wholly relevant to who is "the best." "The best" is not, pace most commenters, an objective fact. It all depends on what is being measured. Best what? Best jumper at their best? Most consistent jumper? Most "artistic" (insofar as figure skaters can be described as artists)? Best at getting good scores from US judges? Best at getting good scores from international judges? And so on.

Mind you, I don't think judgments of "the best" are subjective. They are objective, in my view. But one needs to specify the criteria according to which such judgments are being made. And which criteria are most important may be subjective. They are, at least, highly debatable, and consensus seems unlikely.

And, last, not in response to anyone specifically: GO, ALISSA! (I really liked your last post, os168.)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Every skater fights their own inner demons, sought their own unique battles and versions of glory.

It is more than medals for someone who has accomplished so much for the sport, but still seems so under appreciated like pretty much every one else impossible to to follow the legacy set by MK. No matter what results she 'failed' to deliver, when she did, she is a hero. but when she fails miserably, her spirit in tatters, body that simply gave up on her, she still doesn't gave it up on her self. Does that make her goals any less than heroic or more so?

Are other skaters who are not even close to Alissa's level, older, or recovering from worse injuries but carry on competing because they love it and they continues to strive bettering themselves running fools errands? Clearly they are not the fools in this equation.

Skaters have the right to continue trying insofar as they are able. For me, the privilege of seeing Alissa skate outweighs any analysis of her possibilities for victory. I can almost guarantee that (unless of course she is in bad shape and can't land anything) watching Alissa will be more rewarding for me than watching the person who gets all the correct points and scores the win. In other words, currently there's no other active competitor who gives me the thrill that Alissa gives because of the richness of her skating. Maybe I'm not the right kind of skating fan, but there it is. Go, Alissa!
 

jennyanydots

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Skaters have the right to continue trying insofar as they are able. For me, the privilege of seeing Alissa skate outweighs any analysis of her possibilities for victory. I can almost guarantee that (unless of course she is in bad shape and can't land anything) watching Alissa will be more rewarding for me than watching the person who gets all the correct points and scores the win. In other words, currently there's no other active competitor who gives me the thrill that Alissa gives because of the richness of her skating. Maybe I'm not the right kind of skating fan, but there it is. Go, Alissa!


Oh, totally agree! She's such a lovely person and skater. It's worrisome and admirable at the same time how she's pushing her physical limits. Most people would never have the heart, as cheesy as it may sound. Watched a video of her performing in Art on Ice recently. She did look rather shaky but she's doing her Beilmann again, and on TSL they said she's doing triples now. I do hope she makes the Olympic team, and even if she doesn't it'll be wonderful just to see her skate again.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Im sure she will try but for me she really passed her prime
there are better things she can do now outside skating as a 26 year old
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Im sure she will try but for me she really passed her prime
there are better things she can do now outside skating as a 26 year old

Which things she can no doubt do AFTER she eventually stops skating as a whatever-year-old. For instance, if she retires after this season - which is very likely - what difference will one year have done, really? Why shouldn't she try?
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Which things she can no doubt do AFTER she eventually stops skating as a whatever-year-old. For instance, if she retires after this season - which is very likely - what difference will one year have done, really? Why shouldn't she try?

because it will be a waste and she will use skating assignments that should go to younger newcomers
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
because it will be a waste and she will use skating assignments that should go to younger newcomers

"Should go"? What have the newcomers (Cesario, etc.) done to earn the assignments? As a two-time national champion and top US lady, Alissa is the one who "should go" -- since, by your reasoning, if this is the younger girls' first chance, then this is Alissa's LAST chance.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
"Should go"? What have the newcomers (Cesario, etc.) done to earn the assignments? As a two-time national champion and top US lady, Alissa is the one who "should go" -- since, by your reasoning, if this is the younger girls' first chance, then this is Alissa's LAST chance.

This. I generally think assignments should go to those who deserve/earn them. I believe Alissa has earned this chance. The newcomers will still be here next year and in many ways that is a more 'logical' time for them to start building- at the beginning of a new cycle.

Now, do I think Alissa should use these spots if she is blatantly not in shape? No. If, for instance, she took some spots and she was only able to land double jumps, and her spins were gone I would think that was wrong. But it doesn't sound like that is the case. In addition, it appears at least somewhat likely that she will have to go through regionals and sectionals (or at least one of them)- quite literally earning her spot. If she can do so, that is no concern of anyone else's.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Well her jumps looked rather gone in shows so I am not sure she deserves to go to ie GP if that is the case. Some would argue she has pulled a Rachel Flatt; Alyssa has been given many chances but has not capitalize yet.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
If she doesn't go to the GP she still HAS to do Regionals and Sectionals to qualify for Nationals. If she is able to qualify, then she deserves to try for an Olympic berth.

Anyway, the only GP slot she could get would be SA. The alternate list is based on the Seasons Best standings, and Alissa isn't on SB as she didn't compete in a GP or ISU Championship in 2012-2013, so she couldn't get a second GP.

If USFS gives Alissa the SA TBA, that would get Alissa out of Regionals. USFS could also send her to an International B in November, thus getting her out of Sectionals. However, I would hate to see USFS do that, as it would show blatant favoritism towards Alissa. I think USFS should take those actions ONLY if Alissa participates in at least two summer events AND skates well.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If USFS gives Alissa the SA TBA, that would get Alissa out of Regionals. USFS could also send her to an International B in November, thus getting her out of Sectionals. However, I would hate to see USFS do that,

^ You know they would...
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Well her jumps looked rather gone in shows so I am not sure she deserves to go to ie GP if that is the case. Some would argue she has pulled a Rachel Flatt; Alyssa has been given many chances but has not capitalize yet.

Alissa dislocated her hip after falling in a show, which took her out of Nationals. I doubt that she'd want to risk it again by attempting any difficult jumps...Shows are usually bad indicators of how far along a skater really is. I've seen both Yuna and Gracie, in shows, mess up elements that they could do in their sleep.

She won a GPF and 2 US titles. How is that, in any way, failing to capitalize on her chances? :confused: I understand that she slipped in 2012, but in 2011, she WAS the uncontested leader of the US ladies -- Ashley was nowhere to be seen, Mirai was already struggling with her jumps, and Rachael was on the decline due to her injuries.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
It isn't as if USFS giving Alissa SA is necessarily a good thing. SA is just 14 weeks away, and if she is just starting to work triple jumps in isolation, she has a long way to go to integrate those jumps into two programs and be able to perform those programs at a competitive level. The danger for Alissa skating in SA is a poor performance before ISU judges. If she falters at SA, the judges will be reminded of her 2012 Worlds performance and that could further hurt her reputation and her PCS scores.

That's why I feel that Alissa needs to show she is in competition shape by skating well in some summer events. If she isn't ready to do that, then a GP event should not be her first competition in the 18 months since Worlds 2012. She would be better off making her competitive debut at Regionals where a few mistakes wouldn't be held against her.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
It isn't as if USFS giving Alissa SA is necessarily a good thing. SA is just 14 weeks away, and if she is just starting to work triple jumps in isolation, she has a long way to go to integrate those jumps into two programs and be able to perform those programs at a competitive level. The danger for Alissa skating in SA is a poor performance before ISU judges. If she falters at SA, the judges will be reminded of her 2012 Worlds performance and that could further hurt her reputation and her PCS scores.

That's why I feel that Alissa needs to show she is in competition shape by skating well in some summer events. If she isn't ready to do that, then a GP event should not be her first competition in the 18 months since Worlds 2012. She would be better off making her competitive debut at Regionals where a few mistakes wouldn't be held against her.

I agree, so I'm posing this question sincerely: If Alissa does not receive the open slot at SA, then who else, in your mind, deserves it?
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
In addition to your outrage, imagine the outrage Gao, Nagasu, Agnes would have if they outskate a Hicks or a Wang, yet were nevertheless somehow passed over for a trip to Sochi as suggested by mskater 93. All three have been skating to a high level over the last 3 years, yet none has made a world team in 3 years. Christina has given up a year at Harvard and surely expects to be treated fairly. I am sure Nagasu's family is not rolling in bucks and is sacrificing to continue skating. Agnes has been third the last two years, and probably believes the 3rd spot is rightfully hers (despite subpar international results). The judging in Omaha was certainly suspect, and the US Fed would be wise to not have a second year in a row on National TV with suspect judging.

I think you all misunderstood what I meant by my post. Not surprising. What I meant was that IF a Wang or Hicks or Miller or Edmunds really have a great fall season and kill it at Nationals, there is a luxury to let the placement fall as they "rightfully" should (let's say one of the unknowns who haven't had senior interationals or limited exposure ends up 3rd) and Czsiny/Nagasu/Gao 4th or 5th because (assuming they aren't injured or bomb at Nationals) Wagner and Gold can carry their weight (more than likely) at the Olympics and Worlds.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I agree, so I'm posing this question sincerely: If Alissa does not receive the open slot at SA, then who else, in your mind, deserves it?

If Hicks isn't doing JGP events, she does. If not, I'd say someone who is amazing (surprising) at GF (International Committee summer selection comp)
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
If Hicks isn't doing JGP events, she does. If not, I'd say someone who is amazing (surprising) at GF (International Committee summer selection comp)

I think Hicks said in an interview that she's staying on the JGP this year. With Radionova and Pogorilaya moving up, the American girls will have a good chance of dominating.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
"Should go"? What have the newcomers (Cesario, etc.) done to earn the assignments? As a two-time national champion and top US lady, Alissa is the one who "should go" -- since, by your reasoning, if this is the younger girls' first chance, then this is Alissa's LAST chance.

earned, she didn't earn it too as she withdrew and didn't get assignments from her injury
you are saying she should be merited because she is a two time national champion ? let have none quad jumping Lysacek too then
Gracie and Wagner will beat her anyways

getting SA host pick and splatting all over the place isn't that more humiliating
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
earned, she didn't earn it too as she withdrew and didn't get assignments from her injury
you are saying she should be merited because she is a two time national champion ? let have none quad jumping Lysacek too then
Gracie and Wagner will beat her anyways

getting SA host pick and splatting all over the place isn't that more humiliating

So you've been watching Evan's daily practices with Frank Carroll? Do share your impressions.

You're predicting that Alissa will humiliate herself; fine. Please answer my question, then. Which of the US ladies (who doesn't already have two assignments) has accomplished as much as, or more than, Alissa -- and therefore "deserves" the SA opening more?
 
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