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Thread: Czisny preparing for one last run at Olympic glory

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I am just no so sure we should be promoting a tripleless program and I am not sure the judges will hold it up - it is like the chicken and egg question will they or should they give the pcs if more difficult ransition and choreography but in lieu of harder jumps.
    As an example, Yuna often gets the highest TR scores, although she usually doesn't have the most (but certainly top 5 at least). Her TR scores rise along with her TES and other PCS scores.

  2. #272
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    If Alissa did a 3 triple LP at Nationals and scored 122 points and made the Olympic team there would be an uproar. Especially if other skaters landed many more triples.
    I don't think so. If she gets the score and makes the team it will be because she gave great performances and skated cleanly. Almost nobody will care about someone who landed 5 Triples but was completely boring (which is sadly the track that Christina Gao seems to be on, if she can even get the jumps together for Nationals). I think it's great that someone can heavily depend on their non-jump elements and performance ability. There is nothing wrong with Alissa being better in those areas than everyone else and getting rewarded for it.

    Alissa won 2009 Nationals with a 3 triple LP, btw. She can get 3rd place in 2014 with a 3-triple program.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post

    Alissa won 2009 Nationals with a 3 triple LP, btw. She can get 3rd place in 2014 with a 3-triple program.
    Alissa scored 112 and change for that 3-triple FS back in 2009. Ashley Wagner, Gracie Gold and Courtney Hicks are all capable of scoring over 120 for their FSs and the Christina Gao you dismiss so lightly scored 117.54 for her FS at 2013 Nationals. Then there is Polina Edmunds, who has been scoring 113+ with junior programs (worth 116 with the added footwork sequence). Doesn't look to me as if Alissa can make top 3 with 112 points.

    Also, Alissa was third in the FS in 2009 and won based on winning the SP by 5.56 points over 2nd place Rachael Flatt. Wagner and Flatt beat Alissa in the FS, but Alissa edged Rachael in the FS by 4 points to win 2009 Nationals. Alissa didn't win the SP in 2011 (Nagasu) or 2012 (Zawadzki). She won 2011 Nationals by winning the FS, and the 2010-2011 season proved to be her best ever, with a 5th place finish at Worlds.

    It doesn't seem as if Alissa could possibly get an edge by winning the SP in her current condition, as so many US ladies are doing 3/3s in their SPs, and many more are doing 3/3s in their FS as well. I agree that Alissa placing 3rd with a 3-triple FS and a bunch of doubles when many ladies are completing 6 and 7 triple free skates would cause an uproar. It just isn't going to happen.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Alissa scored 112 and change for that 3-triple FS back in 2009. Ashley Wagner, Gracie Gold and Courtney Hicks are all capable of scoring over 120 for their FSs and the Christina Gao you dismiss so lightly scored 117.54 for her FS at 2013 Nationals. Then there is Polina Edmunds, who has been scoring 113+ with junior programs (worth 116 with the added footwork sequence). Doesn't look to me as if Alissa can make top 3 with 112 points.



    In your dreams. At this point, Alissa doesn't have even one triple, and she still has to get through Sectionals.

    Agreed. Kudos to her for trying to come back, but there's nothing that would lead me to believe Alissa has a shot at this point. What's a bit unfair is that skaters who are actually completing technical content will probably be denied trips to Nationals, but hopefully Alissa can actually skate a program that's as technically sound as it is artistically sound. It's a huge uphill battle for her right now.

  5. #275
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Alissa scored 112 and change for that 3-triple FS back in 2009.
    Yes, so now she can get 122 when she actually builds the program around 3-triple content instead of falling on an underrotated 3Lutz in the second half of her program, not doing a 3-jump combo, etc.

  6. #276
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    She has already underrotated and fallen on the only 3z she tried. She couldn't break 100 with all doubles, so adding another 10-12 points for triples doesn't add up to 122.

  7. #277
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    She couldn't break 100 with all doubles.
    Sure, because she fell, didn't do double lutzes, didn't have 3 jump combo, didn't have program built around it. You gotta see the big picture.

  8. #278
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    I AM seeing the big picture. I am seeing a 26-year-old with a serious injury who has not recovered as quickly as she had hoped. If she had another year to get herself in competition shape, then your scenario could be in the realm of possibility. That is what Alissa wants to do, but it is not what her battered body is able to do. I, for one, do not want to see her attempt that first triple, go down on the ice and be unable to get up. No one wants to see that.

  9. #279
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    Yes, we can see the big picture and it isn't pretty. (Sorry a bit of sarcasm) I think in skating we don't want all jumps but we also really don't want mainly spins and doubles well really don't cut it) Is this the direction we want Will American girls with no triples start focussing on spins and footwork and artistry and move to other countries where they can qualify for world's and maybe olympics - so we have tonnes of tripleless girls. Maybe dorothy hamill can skate again? Bring back Peggy Fleming. What about the protopopovs? The well rounded skater is the goal; and I guess I am making a judgment call but tripleless seems to help further that our beloved skating is not a sport. There is show skating for that or fun events. Now we have to just hope Alissa has some triples back. She sort of reminds me of Sasha Cohen who could get some big scores even without landed triples but I just find the current example of Alissa skating as lacking a little too much on the jump though one can see how tes wise she can still rack up some points and with pcs do fairly well. If so many support Alissa in her "route" then there should be a lot less complaints about Chan (oh no here comes another war) and others who rely on quality skating.

  10. #280
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Glad to see that Alissa Czisny is included in taralipinski's Instagram photos that seem to be documenting/teasing TL's pre-Sochi interviews with those from Detroit Skating Club.

    TL's shoot schedule presumably was timed so that she can remain in Detroit through this week's Skate America.

  11. #281
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    Tara looks really pretty!

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Tara looks really pretty!
    She does indeed. What a lovely photo of them both.

  13. #283
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    This is true. She will absolutely need her Lutz to be competitive. It's good of her to be trying it at these competitions.

    I still don't think she needs the Flip or Loop, though. With her health, it's such a big risk...and for minimal reward. Her 3Flip gets an edge call and frequently got < calls or had landing issues even when she was healthy. This is also the jump that she went down on hard and dislocated her hip. I see no point at all in her training this jump. A good 2Lz gets her 2.4 points and allows her to increase her speed and transitions in the program, which means better PCS. Her 3Loop was a consistent jump for her, but after a labrum tear? Probably not a good idea. And, again, that jump requires a lot of setup time for her so she's losing PCS by attempting it.

    I gave a potential score for Alissa with all doubles, so here's a layout with just 3 Triples in total:

    2Axel
    3Lutz
    FCoSp4
    2Lutz+2Loop
    StSq3 (Level 4 if they can manage to make one that works with the program; that's the key)
    -----
    3Toe+2Toe+2Loop
    2Axel+2Toe
    CCoSp4
    3Toe
    ChSq
    2Lutz
    LSp4

    Her score could go up 9 points on the tech with that layout (not even counting the possible of Level 4 footwork sequence), which would put her total at 116.6. That's really not bad at all. And then you have to figure her PCS would also go up if she really performs and has a good program, because these Triples carefully spread throughout the program provide enough of a technical excitement. It's all about phasing the program into segments where there is a clear buildup for the Triples to make them stand out.

    I could see Alissa hitting 122 in the LP (that would account for a PCS of 65.4), with just 3 Triples in total. She will need to do a great, clean SP to be taken seriously heading into the LP. It all depends on Alissa being able to deliver a truly excellent programs. Her team needs to get to work NOW with focusing on that gameplan. Training only two different triple jumps should certainly help with giving extra time and energy towards creating the heavenly programs and performances she will need to succeed.
    No, really, Blades of Passion? Truly, I wish this were so. But the idea that the judges would score anyone, even Michelle Kwan, as well as you say, with this jump layout imparts a level of objectivity to figure skating judges that is not plausible to expect. Czisny needs to plan for a SP with two triples and a FS with at least 5. She can skip the flip and salchow (her worst enemies) and still do 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    If Alissa did a 3 triple LP at Nationals and scored 122 points and made the Olympic team there would be an uproar. Especially if other skaters landed many more triples.
    Yeah, maybe. But that's because lots of people uninformedly believe that jumps are all that matters. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be right.



    BTW, I was comparing scores from Regionals. With the scores AC got at regionals, she would easily finish 2nd or 3rd at Sectionals.

  14. #284
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    Has anyone heard new news about Alissa and her progress? Is she doing triples with more consistency in the lead up to Sectionals? I really hope we get to see her in Boston/ fighting for an Olympic bid.

    The all-double regional competition and Yuka's less-than-enthusiastic outlook worry me, but maybe Alissa can surprise us all with strong performances? At this point I think her 2010/2011 self might be good enough for a 2nd place finish at Nationals. I doubt that's realistic, but maybe she could make the podium?

  15. #285
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    Alissa has to finish 4th at Sectionals to even make it to Nationals, and that is not a given.

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