Polina Edmunds: Can she compete at Seniors next season | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Polina Edmunds: Can she compete at Seniors next season

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Both Miller and Wang made the JGPF last season and would have done better at Jr Worlds then Yasmin did. Yasmin had one good competition why should that have been considered more impressive then a whole season of good performances from Angela and Hannah? Miller even won a silver medal at the JGPF.

I don't think "would have done" is convincing enough for the USFS, since they usually give international assignments based on Nationals:

1st place (Ashley) went to Worlds
2nd place (Gracie) went to Worlds and 4CC
3rd place (Agnes) went to 4CC
4th place (Courtney, who was skating internationally as a junior) went to Jr. Worlds
5th place (Christina) went to 4CC
6th place (Yasmin) went to Jr. Worlds
7th place (Mirai) was too old for Jr. Worlds and made 4CC alternate
8th place (Samantha) went to Jr. Worlds

If Courtney had had more senior international experience, she probably would have gotten the 4CC nod, and Christina would have gone to Jr. Worlds again. Also, as was mentioned, it would have looked pretty suspicious to pass up Yasmin for Hannah or Angela, both of whom finished more than ten points below Yasmin at Nationals.

Eighth or ninth at Nationals, moreover, doesn't bode well for a skater in the second half of the season. The expectation is that you'll peak when it matters -- around Worlds or Jr. Worlds. Ashley faced this problem last season, when she had a great GP and then ran out of gas by Nationals, nearly losing her title. In 2010, Mirai didn't do so well on the GP, but hit a high point at Nationals, which convinced the USFS to send her instead of Ashley to the Olympics.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Just for the record the Jr. World teams from the last few years:

2013: Courtney Hicks (4th), Yasmin Siraj (6th) Samantha Cesario (8th). Angela Wang (9th) was first alternate.
2012: Christina Gao (5th), Vanessa Lam (9th) and Gracie Gold (1st -J). Angela Wang probably should have gone instead of Lam, but with zero international experience + bad SP, they opted for Lam, who went to the JGPF that year. Ashley Cain (2nd-J) was first alternate.
2011: Agnes Zawadzki (4th); Christina Gao (5th) and Courtney Hicks (1st - J) Vanessa Lam (who finished 7th, was the first alternate)
2010: Christina Gao (5th); Agnes Zawadzki (1st -J), Kiri Baga (4th-J; sent due to being in JGP Ashley Wagner (3rd) was originally named to the team, but withdrew, leading the way for Kiri to go.
2009: Caroline Zhang (3rd); Ashley Wagner (4th); Katrina Hacker (6th) (she was originally first alternate, but then Mirai Nagasu (5th) withdrew and Katrina was sent)
2008: Mirai Nagasu (1st); Rachael Flatt (2nd); Caroline Zhang (4th) Alexe Gilles (1st-J) was first alternate.
2007: Mirai Nagasu (1st-J),Caroline Zhang (2nd-J), Ashley Wagner (3rd-J) Rachael Flatt (5th) was 1st alternate.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Polina's case wasn't at all like Gracie, who burst out of nowhere at JGP Estonia, won the junior national title by a landslide, and continued on to win the silver medal at Jr. Worlds. Why would the US fed push their luck by sending Polina, who had zero international experience, to the biggest junior event in the world (and against Radionova and Lipnitskaia, no less)?
Gracie was not from nowhere. She had very good skating at Skate Detroit 2011 and because that had one JGP Event (7th) at 2011.
Polina Edmunds was unstable at summer competitions 2012 and, I believe, because of this had not JGP Events at 2012.

Both Miller and Wang made the JGPF last season and would have done better at Jr Worlds then Yasmin did. Yasmin had one good competition why should that have been considered more impressive then a whole season of good performances from Angela and Hannah? Miller even won a silver medal at the JGPF.
They had 9 and 10 places at Nationals.
So spot was for Cesario (8th at Nats), who was best of US Ladies at JrWorlds.
Nobody did know that 6th at Nats Siraj will skate so badly at JrWorlds. Her score at Nats was more than 10 points higher than Wang's and Miller's.

Btw, Radionova, Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya had 1, 2, 3 places of age-eligible girls at Russian JrNats and because of this had JrWorlds (in Russia JrNats is qualifying competition to JrWorlds, so Radionova and Pogorilaya, who competed at SrNats with good results and had JGP Final medals, took place at JrNats to qualify to JrWorlds).
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Just for the record the Jr. World teams from the last few years:

2013: Courtney Hicks (4th), Yasmin Siraj (6th) Samantha Cesario (8th). Angela Wang (9th) was first alternate.
Places at JrWorlds 5, 11, 4.

2012: Christina Gao (5th), Vanessa Lam (9th) and Gracie Gold (1st -J). Angela Wang probably should have gone instead of Lam, but with zero international experience + bad SP, they opted for Lam, who went to the JGPF that year. Ashley Cain (2nd-J) was first alternate.
Places at JrWorlds 7, 13, 2.
2011: Agnes Zawadzki (4th); Christina Gao (5th) and Courtney Hicks (1st - J) Vanessa Lam (who finished 7th, was the first alternate)
Places at JrWorlds 3, 4, 6.
2010: Christina Gao (5th); Agnes Zawadzki (1st -J), Kiri Baga (4th-J; sent due to being in JGP Ashley Wagner (3rd) was originally named to the team, but withdrew, leading the way for Kiri to go.
Places at JrWorlds 8, 2, 7.
2009: Caroline Zhang (3rd); Ashley Wagner (4th); Katrina Hacker (6th) (she was originally first alternate, but then Mirai Nagasu (5th) withdrew and Katrina was sent)
Places at JrWorlds 2, 3, 4.
2008: Mirai Nagasu (1st); Rachael Flatt (2nd); Caroline Zhang (4th) Alexe Gilles (1st-J) was first alternate.
Places at JrWorlds 3, 1, 2.
2007: Mirai Nagasu (1st-J),Caroline Zhang (2nd-J), Ashley Wagner (3rd-J) Rachael Flatt (5th) was 1st alternate.
Places at JrWorlds 2, 1, 3.

We see - higher place at Nats gives no warranty to higher place at JrWorlds.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Gracie was not from nowhere. She had very good skating at Skate Detroit 2011 and because that had one JGP Event (7th) at 2011.
Polina Edmunds was unstable at summer competitions 2012 and, I believe, because of this had not JGP Events at 2012.

Internationally, and to most skating fans, Gracie was an unknown until she won JGP Estonia (especially compared to Julia L, Adelina, etc.). First place at Skate Detroit wouldn't have been relevant enough for the USFS to send her to Jr. Worlds; her JGP win, and then the junior national title, earned her that spot.

Polina could have had the same opportunity, but her poor summer events last year prevented her from, as you said, receiving the JGP assignments that would have gotten her name out there. As a result, she didn't have the domestic reputation or the international experience that Samantha, Courtney, and Yasmin did, which likely made the USFS very unwilling to bank a decent Jr. Worlds finish on her.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Also, she had several UR'd jumps at Nationals, pointing to an instability in her jumps at the time. You don't want to throw a skater in front of international judges and tech panels when there are definite issues that need to be resolved because then she would end up scrutinzed throughout her career (rightly or wrongly) because she would develop a reputation like Nagasu as an under-rotator...
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Gracie was not from nowhere. She had very good skating at Skate Detroit 2011 and because that had one JGP Event (7th) at 2011.

Gracie didn't finish 7th at JGP Tallinn in 2011----she WON the competition!
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I think AlexRus means it was the 7th event overall in the JGP series that year, not placement
 

Reginald

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Polina's Romeo and Juliet at Nationals in 2013 was one of the best figure skating programs I've ever seen.

Certainly the best Romeo and Juliet.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
We see - higher place at Nats gives no warranty to higher place at JrWorlds.

Having good results on the JGP also always doesn't warrant highest places at Jr. Worlds either. Kiri Baga (2010) and Vanessa Lam (2012) were sent to Jr. Worlds because of their strong JGP results (including making the the JGP final), In Kiri's case, they skipped over Yasmin Siraj and Lindsey Davis, who finished above her in juniors, to make her the first alternate. Vanessa Lam was sent despite Angela Wang beating her overall. Kiri ended up finishing 7th and Vanessa finished 13th, the worst result for a skater in several years.

That said, Angela and Hannah would probably have done fine, but I think Courtney and Samantha put in respectable placements considering the competition.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Polina can do well and I bet she will. We saw the Russian girl of the same age, Anna Pogorilaya, compete on the international scene for the first time last season and she qualified for JGPF where she won bronze (1 point short of silver), was 5th at senior nationals, made the JW team, and won bronze at JW. No reason Polina can't manage something very similar this coming season, she is so talented and strong technically AND artistically (her PCS are pretty high for someone her age and she has lots of dance training which helps her hold her long limbed body very well).
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
^I'd add Sasha Cohen's 2006 FS to that list. It was a very mature and beautiful program, even if she struggled to skate it cleanly.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Gracie didn't finish 7th at JGP Tallinn in 2011----she WON the competition!
7th (last) was JGP Event. We all know that Gracie was first at that Event.
Because it was last JGP Event, she had not one more JGP Event.

Sorry for my previous text which may be misuderstood.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Internationally, and to most skating fans, Gracie was an unknown until she won JGP Estonia (especially compared to Julia L, Adelina, etc.). First place at Skate Detroit wouldn't have been relevant enough for the USFS to send her to Jr. Worlds; her JGP win, and then the junior national title, earned her that spot.

Yes.
Young skaters (not only Radionova, Lipnitakaia etc of Russia, also for example Shoma Uno of Japan) may be known before their Internationals if they take place in Gala of hi-level competitions. Only best, well-known nationally young skaters have such kind of Gala.
Btw, I know Shoma Uno because of his skating at such kind of Gala, before he started his Internationals.

Polina Edmunds had not so high level in USA to be known in this way.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I don't think you can even compare a tone deaf 13 year old with some of the skaters who have in the past skated to R&J. I agree with ForeverFish even with a couple falls Sasha was Juliet. If only she had skated that program clean it would have been one of the best OGM skates ever.

Agreed. Julia used some of the same music selections as Sasha, but Julia's program left me cold and generally unimpressed. She was too young (I know, I know Juliet was thirteen, but that was in a very different time) to adequately interpret the bittersweet passion and heartbreak in that spectacular piece. The same goes for Polina; had she saved the music for later in her career, it would probably have turned out differently...and maybe for the better.
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
agreed. Julia used some of the same music selections as sasha, but julia's program left me cold and generally unimpressed. She was too young (i know, i know juliet was thirteen, but that was in a very different time) to adequately interpret the bittersweet passion and heartbreak in that spectacular piece. The same goes for polina; had she saved the music for later in her career, it would probably have turned out differently...and maybe for the better.

ita.
 
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