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Thread: Polina Edmunds: Can she compete at Seniors next season

  1. #16
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Both Miller and Wang made the JGPF last season and would have done better at Jr Worlds then Yasmin did. Yasmin had one good competition why should that have been considered more impressive then a whole season of good performances from Angela and Hannah? Miller even won a silver medal at the JGPF.
    If it was a close call, I'd agree, but Yasmin beat Angela and Hannah by 11 points. Not only that she was 5th in the FS.

    They tried to do the whole send the JGPF finalist thing last year by opting to send Vanessa Lam, who made it to JGPF, rather than Angela Wang, who actually finished one place above her. Vanessa ended up finishing 13th.

    I don't think it was such a terrible thing to spread the wealth as far as international events. In any case, the trio still did their job for the most part getting 3 spots of junior worlds next year as well as getting the maximum number of spots for JGP.

    As for Polina. No harm, no foul. She's still pretty young! She'll get some great experience on the JGP and take it from there.

  2. #17
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    For Polina, she had serious issues at Nationals with UR'd jumps. You don't want to take that kind of risk at JWs and her potentially getting that reputation with interational tech panels - look at Nagasu!

  3. #18
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Both Miller and Wang made the JGPF last season and would have done better at Jr Worlds then Yasmin did. Yasmin had one good competition why should that have been considered more impressive then a whole season of good performances from Angela and Hannah? Miller even won a silver medal at the JGPF.
    I think they were giving Yasmin a chance. She had two strong performances at nationals this year and with her placement there it would have been really shady to pass her over for someone with zero international experience.

    I love Yasmin's skating (gorgeous interpretation and musicality and amazing edges) but she doesn't get the kind of recognition needed to make a splash...I doubt if she ever will. She wasn't able to place well at jr. worlds this year so we'll have to see if she gets any assignments this year.

    When are they announcing the JGP participants? They don't have the list posted on ISU's site yet...

  4. #19
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
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    i think as far as just getting 3 spots for jr worlds next year again yasmin was a good choice. but if they wanted better overall results they should have given the 3rd spot to hannah or angela. yasmin wasn't on the jgp at all last season and i didn't think going off results from one competition was fair. hannah and angela proved themselves all year that they were strong international competitors and hannah medalled in all 3 of her international events, and angela 2, one being a gold. either one had a good chance of getting a medal at jr worlds.

  5. #20
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    ^^I think the main reason they weigh US nationals so heavily is b/c the JGP takes place months and months before junior worlds. Nationals is a more accurate measurement of where the skaters are at that time in the season. If a skater was on a roll back in August and September of the previous year and appear to be struggling by the end of January, those are thing they have to take into consideration. I'd have sent Angela or Hannah too, but Yasmin outperformed both of them at nationals. It appeared as though she was the safer bet.

    That's why it's so important to deliver when the time calls for it.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Both Miller and Wang made the JGPF last season and would have done better at Jr Worlds then Yasmin did. Yasmin had one good competition why should that have been considered more impressive then a whole season of good performances from Angela and Hannah? Miller even won a silver medal at the JGPF.
    I don't think "would have done" is convincing enough for the USFS, since they usually give international assignments based on Nationals:

    1st place (Ashley) went to Worlds
    2nd place (Gracie) went to Worlds and 4CC
    3rd place (Agnes) went to 4CC
    4th place (Courtney, who was skating internationally as a junior) went to Jr. Worlds
    5th place (Christina) went to 4CC
    6th place (Yasmin) went to Jr. Worlds
    7th place (Mirai) was too old for Jr. Worlds and made 4CC alternate
    8th place (Samantha) went to Jr. Worlds

    If Courtney had had more senior international experience, she probably would have gotten the 4CC nod, and Christina would have gone to Jr. Worlds again. Also, as was mentioned, it would have looked pretty suspicious to pass up Yasmin for Hannah or Angela, both of whom finished more than ten points below Yasmin at Nationals.

    Eighth or ninth at Nationals, moreover, doesn't bode well for a skater in the second half of the season. The expectation is that you'll peak when it matters -- around Worlds or Jr. Worlds. Ashley faced this problem last season, when she had a great GP and then ran out of gas by Nationals, nearly losing her title. In 2010, Mirai didn't do so well on the GP, but hit a high point at Nationals, which convinced the USFS to send her instead of Ashley to the Olympics.

  7. #22
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Just for the record the Jr. World teams from the last few years:

    2013: Courtney Hicks (4th), Yasmin Siraj (6th) Samantha Cesario (8th). Angela Wang (9th) was first alternate.
    2012: Christina Gao (5th), Vanessa Lam (9th) and Gracie Gold (1st -J). Angela Wang probably should have gone instead of Lam, but with zero international experience + bad SP, they opted for Lam, who went to the JGPF that year. Ashley Cain (2nd-J) was first alternate.
    2011: Agnes Zawadzki (4th); Christina Gao (5th) and Courtney Hicks (1st - J) Vanessa Lam (who finished 7th, was the first alternate)
    2010: Christina Gao (5th); Agnes Zawadzki (1st -J), Kiri Baga (4th-J; sent due to being in JGP Ashley Wagner (3rd) was originally named to the team, but withdrew, leading the way for Kiri to go.
    2009: Caroline Zhang (3rd); Ashley Wagner (4th); Katrina Hacker (6th) (she was originally first alternate, but then Mirai Nagasu (5th) withdrew and Katrina was sent)
    2008: Mirai Nagasu (1st); Rachael Flatt (2nd); Caroline Zhang (4th) Alexe Gilles (1st-J) was first alternate.
    2007: Mirai Nagasu (1st-J),Caroline Zhang (2nd-J), Ashley Wagner (3rd-J) Rachael Flatt (5th) was 1st alternate.

  8. #23
    Custom Title macy's Avatar
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    here is polina's short at broadmoor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTV6optlAp0

    very impressive!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Polina's case wasn't at all like Gracie, who burst out of nowhere at JGP Estonia, won the junior national title by a landslide, and continued on to win the silver medal at Jr. Worlds. Why would the US fed push their luck by sending Polina, who had zero international experience, to the biggest junior event in the world (and against Radionova and Lipnitskaia, no less)?
    Gracie was not from nowhere. She had very good skating at Skate Detroit 2011 and because that had one JGP Event (7th) at 2011.
    Polina Edmunds was unstable at summer competitions 2012 and, I believe, because of this had not JGP Events at 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Both Miller and Wang made the JGPF last season and would have done better at Jr Worlds then Yasmin did. Yasmin had one good competition why should that have been considered more impressive then a whole season of good performances from Angela and Hannah? Miller even won a silver medal at the JGPF.
    They had 9 and 10 places at Nationals.
    So spot was for Cesario (8th at Nats), who was best of US Ladies at JrWorlds.
    Nobody did know that 6th at Nats Siraj will skate so badly at JrWorlds. Her score at Nats was more than 10 points higher than Wang's and Miller's.

    Btw, Radionova, Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya had 1, 2, 3 places of age-eligible girls at Russian JrNats and because of this had JrWorlds (in Russia JrNats is qualifying competition to JrWorlds, so Radionova and Pogorilaya, who competed at SrNats with good results and had JGP Final medals, took place at JrNats to qualify to JrWorlds).

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Just for the record the Jr. World teams from the last few years:

    2013: Courtney Hicks (4th), Yasmin Siraj (6th) Samantha Cesario (8th). Angela Wang (9th) was first alternate.
    Places at JrWorlds 5, 11, 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    2012: Christina Gao (5th), Vanessa Lam (9th) and Gracie Gold (1st -J). Angela Wang probably should have gone instead of Lam, but with zero international experience + bad SP, they opted for Lam, who went to the JGPF that year. Ashley Cain (2nd-J) was first alternate.
    Places at JrWorlds 7, 13, 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    2011: Agnes Zawadzki (4th); Christina Gao (5th) and Courtney Hicks (1st - J) Vanessa Lam (who finished 7th, was the first alternate)
    Places at JrWorlds 3, 4, 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    2010: Christina Gao (5th); Agnes Zawadzki (1st -J), Kiri Baga (4th-J; sent due to being in JGP Ashley Wagner (3rd) was originally named to the team, but withdrew, leading the way for Kiri to go.
    Places at JrWorlds 8, 2, 7.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    2009: Caroline Zhang (3rd); Ashley Wagner (4th); Katrina Hacker (6th) (she was originally first alternate, but then Mirai Nagasu (5th) withdrew and Katrina was sent)
    Places at JrWorlds 2, 3, 4.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    2008: Mirai Nagasu (1st); Rachael Flatt (2nd); Caroline Zhang (4th) Alexe Gilles (1st-J) was first alternate.
    Places at JrWorlds 3, 1, 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    2007: Mirai Nagasu (1st-J),Caroline Zhang (2nd-J), Ashley Wagner (3rd-J) Rachael Flatt (5th) was 1st alternate.
    Places at JrWorlds 2, 1, 3.

    We see - higher place at Nats gives no warranty to higher place at JrWorlds.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Gracie was not from nowhere. She had very good skating at Skate Detroit 2011 and because that had one JGP Event (7th) at 2011.
    Polina Edmunds was unstable at summer competitions 2012 and, I believe, because of this had not JGP Events at 2012.
    Internationally, and to most skating fans, Gracie was an unknown until she won JGP Estonia (especially compared to Julia L, Adelina, etc.). First place at Skate Detroit wouldn't have been relevant enough for the USFS to send her to Jr. Worlds; her JGP win, and then the junior national title, earned her that spot.

    Polina could have had the same opportunity, but her poor summer events last year prevented her from, as you said, receiving the JGP assignments that would have gotten her name out there. As a result, she didn't have the domestic reputation or the international experience that Samantha, Courtney, and Yasmin did, which likely made the USFS very unwilling to bank a decent Jr. Worlds finish on her.

  12. #27
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Also, she had several UR'd jumps at Nationals, pointing to an instability in her jumps at the time. You don't want to throw a skater in front of international judges and tech panels when there are definite issues that need to be resolved because then she would end up scrutinzed throughout her career (rightly or wrongly) because she would develop a reputation like Nagasu as an under-rotator...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Gracie was not from nowhere. She had very good skating at Skate Detroit 2011 and because that had one JGP Event (7th) at 2011.
    Gracie didn't finish 7th at JGP Tallinn in 2011----she WON the competition!

  14. #29
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    I think AlexRus means it was the 7th event overall in the JGP series that year, not placement

  15. #30
    Banned Reginald's Avatar
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    Polina's Romeo and Juliet at Nationals in 2013 was one of the best figure skating programs I've ever seen.

    Certainly the best Romeo and Juliet.

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