Jason Brown

Mrs. P · Jan 21, 2014

chuckm said:
At least Vincent will be eligible for the JGP in the fall, if he is fully healed from his surgery.

Oh yeah, I don't think it will be a big issue. After all, this was Jason's first season on the GP circuit and he's on the Olympic team (and Polina has none), so getting a whole ton of senior international experience isn't necessarily a requirement. It is nice to have more time in from of the senior judges though.

Oh another possibility in 2018 is Tomoki Hiwatashi, who won Novice last year. He was also out on injury this season.

Back on topic: 2,719,426 views. Getting closer to 3M.

ETA: Just watched the Ice Network version of Jason's FS. Michael Weiss' commentary was quite nice actually. Worth watching ( I think you can access Jason's FS without an Ice Network subscription.)

gmyers · Jan 21, 2014

Gymfan15 said:
The quad does matter for the same reason that you just said; Jason lost because of the short. You can make up points in the long if you don't have the hardest jumps but it much, MUCH harder to do it in the short. Figure skating isn't a "best long program wins" sport; it's a combination of both and the short does matter; it matters a lot.

And anyway; the fact that Jason has a GP bronze is "somewhat" irrelevant because A) almost the entire field completely bombed and B) he was TWENTY POINTS out of second and FIFTY out of gold. Granted, it's Chan and Hanyu we're talking about, but they're they ones who will be competing at the Olympics, and one does not overcome a FIFTY POINT deficit even IF his jumps weren't super at TEB. He can whittle down the margin but not enough to win.

Anyway, it's weird to be arguing this fact because I freakin' love Jason Brown and it would make my life if he won a medal in Sochi. I'm just being realistic and I don't want people have expectations of Jason that he can't possibly fulfill unless it's absolute trasher of a competition for everyone else (and really, who wants that?). I'd rather Jason win his medals by soundly beating everyone as opposed to getting a lot of help from everyone else's falls.

ETA: If you take Jason's scores from Nats and put them into TEB, he wins the silver but is still 25 points behind Chan. Once you factor in Nationals inflation, yeah, there's no way.

Almost all the other men use free skates to do higher risk elements. This is where the total conservatism can make up for a hole made in a sp. when all skaters are together i think scores will be different and no way if chan makes normal errors he can be beat by brown. The pcs of brown is always amazing. I think it's totally wrong and doesn't reflect cop when one says he needs a quad. Quads are still risky high risk things and then what about us nationals? Loo at how all the jumps of Aaron meant nothing. His pcs was like 78 and browns 93! Look at what can happens when a program is beloved and one of the most popular in fs history and browns become the not famous American skater since Kwan and equal to boitano among men.

Mrs. P · Jan 21, 2014

gmyers said:
Almost all the other men use free skates to do higher risk elements. This is where the total conservatism can make up for a hole made in a sp. when all skaters are together i think scores will be different and no way if chan makes normal errors he can be beat by brown. The pcs of brown is always amazing. I think it's totally wrong and doesn't reflect cop when one says he needs a quad. Quads are still risky high risk things and then what about us nationals? Loo at how all the jumps of Aaron meant nothing. His pcs was like 78 and browns 93! Look at what can happens when a program is beloved and one of the most popular in fs history and browns become the not famous American skater since Kwan and equal to boitano among men.

Oh for heaven's sake. Jason is not going to get 93 PCS at the Olympics. His best PCS internationally is 80.12.

Also, I'd like you to try to do a y-spiral into your triple lutz....let me know how easy it was for you! :laugh:

Um, the jumps from Aaron did mean something, it helped him move up from 4th to 3rd.

gmyers · Jan 21, 2014

Mrs. P said:
Oh for heaven's sake. Jason is not going to get 93 PCS at the Olympics. His best PCS internationally is 80.12.

Also, I'd like you to try to do a y-spiral into your triple lutz....let me know how easy it was for you!

Um, the jumps from Aaron did mean something, it helped him move up from 4th to 3rd.

It's almost guaranteed based on the way things have been going that everyone's pcs will peak in Sochi.

I don't have to do a spiral into anything to know that moves like that are much more values in pcs and goe than quads are overall in the scoring system. Y spirals can give you 10's in pcs and +3 in goe giving you quad equivilant value.

It was mentioned in tsl recap how Aaron's rise was based on quad ability originally and that was all true and now you have brown with no quad officially and one 3a in a fs winning the fs at us nationals. Quads were meaningless for Aaron and meaningless for brown because nothing in cop makes them vital and why brown can medal or win in Sochi. Not to mention becoming the number one American skater in singles in Sochi isn't going to benefit his pcs when international judges already love him?

Mrs. P · Jan 21, 2014

gmyers said:
It's almost guaranteed based on the way things have been going that everyone's pcs will peak in Sochi.

I don't have to do a spiral into anything to know that moves like that are much more values in pcs and goe than quads are overall in the scoring system. Y spirals can give you 10's in pcs and +3 in goe giving you quad equivilant value.

It was mentioned in tsl recap how Aaron's rise was based on quad ability originally and that was all true and now you have brown with no quad officially and one 3a in a fs winning the fs at us nationals. Quads were meaningless for Aaron and meaningless for brown because nothing in cop makes them vital and why brown can medal or win in Sochi. Not to mention becoming the number one American skater in singles in Sochi isn't going to benefit his pcs when international judges already love him?

Um...did you forget that Jeremy Abbott won? Technically he's No. 1.

Your assumptions are so out there, that I don't think I can have a proper discussion with you anymore.

We'll it's probably worth mentioning that Jason Brown's ponytail has a Twitter account, joining the likes of Maxim Trankov's yellow pants and Yuzuru's Pooh tissue box. LOL

Mathman · Jan 21, 2014

Don't mind gmyers, Mrs. P. He is just mad that quads don't count for more in the scoring system.

TontoK · Jan 21, 2014

Maybe I'm confused, but I think gmeyers is making the point that Jason Brown's other qualities compensate for the current lack of a quad.

It's a statement that I happen to agree with.

It remains to be seen if Olympic judges will agree.

Mathman · Jan 21, 2014

^ Nah, all posts by gmyers that seem like he likes quadless men skaters are sarcastic. He is saying, sure, in this stupid scoring system where no one cares about quads, of course someone like Jason Brown can score well.

gmyers · Jan 21, 2014

Mathman said:
^ Nah, all posts by gmers that seem like he likes quadless men skaters are sarcastic. He is saying, sure, in this stupid scoring system where no one cares about quads, of course someone like Jason Brown can score well.

That still means browns other qualities compensate for lack of quads. You are just saying it in a tone that may reflect my feelings more!

Obviously Abbott won nationals. He won nationals in 2010 and just like then he wasn't world champion and now he's not international sensation.

Mrs. P · Jan 21, 2014

gmyers said:
That still means browns other qualities compensate for lack of quads. You are just saying it in a tone that may reflect my feelings more!

Obviously Abbott won nationals. He won nationals in 2010 and just like then he wasn't world champion and now he's not international sensation.

Here is why a quad matters.

Javier Fernandez scored 88.19 points with three jumps with -GOE and a < on her 4S-3T and a popped 3Z.

Yuzuru Hanyu scored 102.03 with a fall on his first quad. He also scored 87+ at TEB with a pop on one quad and a a fall on the other.

Jason Brown scored 89.27 with a nearly flawless program that included earning 17 points in GOE. I do not think the judges will be as generous with the +GOE at the Olympics. If he gets 90+ for that program, I will be really surprised. I do think something in the 85+ range is possible.

Yes Jason has lots of lovely qualities that will compensate for a higher base value program, but it is just not mathematically possible for Jason to score 100+ or even 95+ with his current layout even if he got +3 on every element. And that will be the type of TES that the top contenders will have.

gmyers · Jan 21, 2014

Mrs. P said:
Here is why a quad matters.

Javier Fernandez scored 88.19 points with three jumps with -GOE and a < on her 4S-3T and a popped 3Z.

Yuzuru Hanyu scored 102.03 with a fall on his first quad. He also scored 87+ at TEB with a pop on one quad and a a fall on the other.

Jason Brown scored 89.27 with a nearly flawless program that included earning 17 points in GOE. I do not think the judges will be as generous with the +GOE at the Olympics. If he gets 90+ for that program, I will be really surprised. I do think something in the 85+ range is possible.

Yes Jason has lots of lovely qualities that will compensate for a higher base value program, but it is just not mathematically possible for Jason to score 100+ or even 95+ with his current layout even if he got +3 on every element. And that will be the type of TES that the top contenders will have.

The other people like Fernandez and hanyu are doing the riskiest hardest jumps in the biggest highest profile most stressful environment. Brown is just being totally conservative with difficulty. Being conservative with difficulty combined with success on the element against people who are taking much bigger risks with harder elements absolutely could Create medal/win opportunity. He's not limiting his jumps in sochi to 3a being hardest to concede defeat and just be there to learn and have fun and Get experience and have a good time it's strategy! It can be all those things together. Yes falling on quads can get a lot points and is uring no longer gets you no points but tripling or doubling or singling? End of them! Even if brown doubled a 3a attempt. 2a worth more than 2t or 2s!

zschultz1986 · Jan 22, 2014

gmyers said:
The other people like Fernandez and hanyu are doing the riskiest hardest jumps in the biggest highest profile most stressful environment. Brown is just being totally conservative with difficulty. Being conservative with difficulty combined with success on the element against people who are taking much bigger risks with harder elements absolutely could Create medal/win opportunity. He's not limiting his jumps in sochi to 3a being hardest to concede defeat and just be there to learn and have fun and Get experience and have a good time it's strategy! It can be all those things together. Yes falling on quads can get a lot points and is uring no longer gets you no points but tripling or doubling or singling? End of them! Even if brown doubled a 3a attempt. 2a worth more than 2t or 2s!

I agree, but with the way scoring is today, a fall on a quad would be worth about the same or more of a clean, triple version of that jump.

Also, we talking about a kid who has being a steady learner and had progress throughout his career. The quad will come.

At this point, I want Jason to do his layout extremely clean (that means more speed on that second 3A so it isn't UR) and also, where's his three jump combo? why just 3t-2t and not 3t-2t-2t?

Mrs. P · Jan 22, 2014

zschultz1986 said:
At this point, I want Jason to do his layout extremely clean (that means more speed on that second 3A so it isn't UR) and also, where's his three jump combo? why just 3t-2t and not 3t-2t-2t?

He does a 3Z-1L-3S combo in the second-half.

ranjake · Jan 22, 2014

Gymfan15 said:
Jason having the same jump content as Evan doesn't mean anything nowadays because the competition is SO much stiffer and people are landing harder jumps more consistently. If Jason was competing four years ago; he might have challenged for the podium but I dunno; like you said he is very young and as wonderful as he is, he still has a ways to go. BUT, he is getting there and FINALLY people are starting to notice and get excited.

My wish for Jason for Sochi is to skate the team event, get an Olympic medal (!!! ) and put in two clean, electric performances that makes all the other skaters pray he never gets his quad because he'll be coming for their World titles soon.

Sounds great to me! I too, just want Jason to have clean skates. It's just so much fun to watch.

zschultz1986 · Jan 22, 2014

Mrs. P said:
He does a 3Z-1L-3S combo in the second-half.

Oh... that's not a sequence? well then... Never mind

Mrs. P · Jan 22, 2014

zschultz1986 said:
Oh... that's not a sequence? well then... Never mind

Nope! It used to be under previous rules but now it isn't....which is great because it's worth a lot of points!

ivy · Jan 22, 2014

Mrs. P said:
He does a 3Z-1L-3S combo in the second-half.

Does that count as three jumps then? It feels more like a 2 jump pass. I mean the loop isn't really a loop - more a way to switch to the correct take off foot

Mrs. P · Jan 22, 2014

ivy said:
Does that count as three jumps then? It feels more like a 2 jump pass. I mean the loop isn't really a loop - more a way to switch to the correct take off foot

Yes it does. The second jump counts as a 1L even though it's more of a half loop.

WeakAnkles · Jan 22, 2014

Current Youtube tally: 2, 752, 130

Getting closer to the 3 million mark...

UnsaneLily87 · Jan 22, 2014

WeakAnkles said:
Current Youtube tally: 2, 752, 130

Getting closer to the 3 million mark...

I did my part last night!

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