latest from Ms. Cohen

http://www.sashacohen.com/journal.shtml

I'm a little confused: did the Petrenko's move to NYC?

We’re going to do a lot of basic skating and improve my stroking.

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Thank God! IMHO , edging has always been her greatest weakness.

We’re thinking about music for a show program

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Does she mean now? Is this really the moment to spend time on this?

We’re going to try to get the quality of my skating higher so it really flows throughout the program and see if we can up the difficult content in my long. I know I am able to do a higher quality program. We want to put out a triple-triple, and we’ll really be working on that.

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I agree with the first part, that seems smart to me. But, the second part I'm not so sure about. She hasn't been able to skate a clean program yet, why add difficulty to it. With a 6.0 with no 3/3 and 2 mistakes, does she really think she needs it? Well, Robin knew Sarah needed 3/3s to beat Kwan, so I quess the same works for Sasha.

Worlds is going to be very intersting IMHO.

Yes, the Petrenkos moved to NYC last year. (There were some articles/posts about it IIRC).

I'm glad that Sasha is working on stroking and basic skills, IIRC-didn't Robin have Sarah work on basic stroking for a while after she read that people thought her stroking needed some more work? At least that what I thought I read... Not saying that Robin is making Sasha work on stroking just because what an internet messageboard says , just that it is a good idea to have her work on stroking.

I agree with you that adding a 3/3 or even quad might not be the best idea. If she works on stroking/edges (they're not horrendous-it is just that there is room for improvement), and works on consistancy with jumps, she would be harder to beat.

I actually really like Sasha's Swan Lake program at Nationals. While I could do without Peggy and Dick's overgushing it was a very good program. Working on consistancy and edging would be great.

I'm a little confused: did the Petrenko's move to NYC?

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I think they're now at a rink in New Jersey (not the Ice House), so they probably moved to somewhere in the NJ area.

Is this really the moment to spend time on this (show program)?

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Since COI starts right after Worlds, yes, skaters do need to prepare something for that. (Assuming she places high enough at Worlds, she might want to do a new exhibition there, too.) And, in addition to the fact that it provides some variety in the day to work on something new, she and Robin are probably eager to see what their own first collaboration could be.

I agree with the first part, that seems smart to me. But, the second part I'm not so sure about. She hasn't been able to skate a clean program yet, why add difficulty to it.

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We're just hearing a brief recap, from one of the two particpants in the discussion. We can't know for sure - because *Robin* probably doesn't know for sure yet - what they'll choose as the final content of Sasha's program.

I'd love to see some strength in Sasha's stroking. Glad they are working on it. I wonder how Robin brought that one up when, I'd guess, Sasha had no idea that her stroking was weak - or did she?

I don't like the talk of the 3 axel and quad. I don't want to see either in ladies skating. I don't think it adds to a program while it does increase the chances of injury.

The Sasha/Robin collaboration will be interesting to watch.

Huh, first I got a shock about Sasha practicing a quad, but fortunately that will happen after the COI tour and not now before the Worlds... A triple axel, I would assume that will come after the COI tour?

I think that the plans of Robin and Sasha to improve a few matters in her skating are just fine. And working on the triple-triple combination is a good idea for her. She needs that at the Worlds, in my opinion.

Sasha and her coach are doing some travelling... I hope that for next season things will be easier for them. They need their energy and time for other matters than travelling. Maybe there is some info already how matters will be next season?

Marjaana

While I'm all in favor of continually looking to improve ... I just think doing one thing right, before you move on to more difficult things, makes good common sense. Her program has been changing all season ... maybe part of the reason why she keeps making mistakes. She has enormous talent ... many things in her favor ... just not nailing down consistent clean LP's. So to me, to be talking of 3/3's and added difficulty to her program, just makes no sense right now. Whatever she decides, I wish her the best.

I read on another forum, that Petrenkos live in NJ. So, Sasha probably trains in NJ?

I think 3/3 is necessary for Worlds, they'll work on quad in the summer.

I think Sasha trains with Robin Wagner at the Ice House(NJ)

The article mentioned Sasha skating half the week at the Ice House, half the time at another rink.

I think that a triple-triple is well within Sasha's reach. I agree with Registered that she needs something extra to put her ahead of Michelle in the judge's eyes, if both skate well at Worlds.

The danger in adding a triple-triple to her program, IMHO, is not so much that she might miss it, but that it might take a lot out of her and cause her to make mistakes later in the program. We have certainly seen this happen with the men, who hit great quad combos in the first minute, but then run out of steam and double their last few jumps.

Mathman

Mathman said:

I think that a triple-triple is well within Sasha's reach. I agree with Registered that she needs something extra to put her ahead of Michelle in the judge's eyes, if both skate well at Worlds.

Mathman

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Umm, actually, I don't think Sasha needs something extra to top Michelle in judges eyes, if both skate clean. But my point was not about Michelle, under the 6.0 system 3/3 is a must at the most important competition of the season. Lately we've seen skaters performing it even in the SP, so IMO any skater, who aims to get on the podium needs to show up, armed with at least one 3/3 (including MK).

Sorry to have misquoted you, Registered. (I should have known you didn't mean that, LOL.)

It will indeed be interesting to see what both Sasha and Michelle do. Arakawa, for instance, will surely come in with at least one triple-triple.

Mathman

Tara knew to beat La Kwan she needed a 3x3. She got one and bam!

As for Sasha, I kinda hear Robin's voice in that sashacohen.com piece and I think it's great. There's a working relationship between them.

Joe

Tara knew to beat La Kwan she needed a 3x3. She got one and bam!

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I'm not sure I agree with this quote at all.

Yes, Tara was the first to do the more difficult 3r/3r, but top ladies doing 3/3s in the LP had been around for an entire decade. Debi, Midori, Tonya, Kristi, Nancy, Surya, Nicole...all landed 3/3s at worlds or Olys when Tara was practically back in "learn to skate" programs.

Although MK is 2 years older, IMHO she and Tara were very much contemporaries and both attempted 3/3s at 96 nats. MK had been practicing the 3s/3r the year before. I consider both to have known that a 3/3 was expected of a top lady from the get-go.

The fractured toe was one thing, it's not like MK started the Oly season not having a 3/3 in her arsenal or not even planing on doing one in Nagano. It was just bad luck. Likewise, it's not like Tara added the 3/3 in the Oly season to try and top MK, she always had one in her LP all 3 years. Even Lulu attempted a 3/3 in Nagano, IIRC for the 1st time in her life.

With only 1 world title and having lost repeatedly to Tara in 97, MK in 98 was not the skating icon that Sarah & Sasha faced in 02. Then Sarah need 2 3/3s to beat Kwan's 1. It's only the past 2 seasons that Kwan has dropped the 3/3, it's not like Tara/Sasha/Sarah are facing Kat Witt.

It seemed to me like Sasha and Robin both seem to be pretty anti triple axel. They know it's unnecessary, and Sasha doesn't seem to be in any rush to try it.

If she gets those edges down, she'll be even more beautiful a skater than she already is, and the falls won't seem as tragic. She needs to get those edges down, and the spirals will be incredible, the footwork will be better, and her skating will take on a much higher quality. I can't wait.

As for the show program, I mean, she said they were thinking about it, not working on it. Skaters do have downtime...they can't be training all the time .

Sasha doesn't need the 3/3, when Michelle's only doing one 3/2. Just add another 3/2, or two, as she did at nats, and she'll be ok. Not that I mind seeing her do the 3/3, but I just don't find it necessary in competition this year. She should do what she can do well, especially if she doesn't need to push the envelope.

Kat

berthes ghost said:

...With only 1 world title and having lost repeatedly to Tara in 97, MK in 98 was not the skating icon that Sarah & Sasha faced in 02. Then Sarah need 2 3/3s to beat Kwan's 1. It's only the past 2 seasons that Kwan has dropped the 3/3, it's not like Tara/Sasha/Sarah are facing Kat Witt.

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Maybe this is nitpicky and perhaps OT, but Michelle only landed her planded 3t/3t once in the '01/02 season, in the '02 Worlds Q round, which was once out of eight planned attempts throughout the season. So I don't know how accurate it is to use the wording "Then Sarah needed 2 3/3s to beat Kwan's 1" since in the context of the post, it makes it sound as if Michelle landed her 3/3 at the '02 Olympics and that Sarah thus needed two 3/3s to beat her. Of course skaters want to be prepared for the competition and perhaps Michelle was landing her 3/3 a lot in practice. The other skaters may also have had Irina in mind.

BTW, during the '00/01 season, Michelle landed her 3/3 three times out of seven attempts. In no way am I trying to critisize Michelle--her amazing career speaks for itself. It's just the wording of the statement I referred to that doesn't seem accurate.

FYI: Source of info on Michelle's jumps
'01/02 Season
http://www.quick78.com/mktribute/mkjumps0102.html
'00/01
http://www.quick78.com/mktribute/mkjumps0001.html

Back to Sasha, I too don't think adding a 3/3 for Worlds is the best strategy for her, mainly because of the point brought up by Mathman about taking so much out of her that she falls on a relatively simple jump later. OTOH, Shizuka will probably come armed with a 3/3, possibly two, and Fumie may too. And of course Miki Ando has the quad. With Ando it has been a question of doing the rest of her jumps cleanly, but that was in the past. She may have improved a lot in this area.

But as for the quad, I think trying it is an invitation for a hip injury. With the figure skating boots as they are now, it's just bad news for women. I can see the pressure to do it and unfortunately I think this generations of ladies is going to pay the price for trying 3/3s and quads by sustaining serious injury. I think it's going to take about 10 years of skaters constantly getting injured doing 3/3s and quads before anything gets down about the boots.

But I'm very glad to hear Wagner and Sasha are going to be working on her stroking and other basics. As for ways to make her LP stronger, hopefully Sasha is taking about little things that they settle on soon. Good luck!
Rgirl

berthes ghost said:

Then Sarah need 2 3/3s to beat Kwan's 1. It's only the past 2 seasons that Kwan has dropped the 3/3, it's not like Tara/Sasha/Sarah are facing Kat Witt.

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Even then Sarah couldn't beat a 6 triple (no 3/3 combo) Michelle or Irina unless they faltered which both did at the Olympics and Skate Canada.

I don't think Sasha needs a 3/3 to beat Michelle. If Sasha performs jumps like she did at Nationals added with a little spark minus the fall and two footed flip she could very well win against the type of program Michelle has this season. Of course I'm always rooting for Michelle to win.

Rgirl said:

BTW, during the '00/01 season, Michelle landed her 3/3 three times out of seven attempts. In no way am I trying to critisize Michelle--her amazing career speaks for itself. It's just the wording of the statement I referred to that doesn't seem accurate.

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Rgirl, knowing you are in no way try to critisizing MK.

But all BG said was, if team Sarah knew team Kwan had one 3/3 planned then she needed plan two 3/3s. And you can plan only when you have landed them in practice. Planned in program has nothing to do with actually doing them in competetion or landing them. One may falted at landing the planned one. One may just not try it if she sensed that she could win without attempt it in risk.

And to be fair, at season 01/02 Sarah always had 2 3/3 planned. But she actually only landed once at the right time and right place. which won her a big price.

Thanks for posting this wonderful news, berthes ghost!

YES! Great to read that Sasha (& Robin) intend to up her technical difficulty for future........smart thinking........especially in light of Sasha actually having proven that she can land the difficult jumps/combos./sequences in competition (aka 3Z/3T @ 2003 Worlds & 3T-.5R-3S sequence @ 2002 Crest Pro-Am). The former accompanied w/5 solo triples (making it 7 triples in total, including 1 3/3 combo.), and the latter accompanied w/4 solo triples (making it 6 triples in total, including 1 3/3 sequence). More than capable of doing the hard stuff, but more importantly willing to do so - that's one tough/gutsy skater. {two thumbs way up}

I still maintain that TT shouldn't have downgraded Sasha's FS this past season ~ Sasha worked too hard all last year to land the aforementioned elements ~ only to see it thrown away this past season. One doesn't maintain the jumps/combos./sequences one has worked so hard to acquire by not putting them in each & every competition. In fact, rotating the 3/3 combos. & sequences every time out is Sasha's best option. For instance, compare Sarah Hughes strategy of attempting the 3/3s every time out as opposed to her competitors strategy of only doing so when they felt they needed it, and look at their respective percentages of actually landing it in competition. Thus, better to start putting them in competiton now & every competiton thereafter in order to gain consistency, rather than be disappointed come Olympic time when playing it safe didn't work. Better to go down fighting than the opposite. After all, all things lead toward the Olympics, not the other way around ~ that's when you'll see everybody going all out & trying everything in their arsenal (even some not quite there yet). JMHO of course.

As regards the quad, that would be a great goal, especially as I think (as of now) Sasha Cohen has the best chance of any American woman to land it. And she would be continuing on the tradition of excellence when it comes to American women pushing the envelope & matching other countries in doing so. For example, Tonya Harding became the first American female ever to land the triple axel in competition (Midori Ito being the first ever). And the same goes for Sarah Hughes, whom became the first American lady ever to land two triple-triples in competition (Irina Slutskaya being the first ever). And now it's the quad jump ~ Miki Ando became the first lady skater ever to land it in competiton in 2002 ~ with Sasha having landed several in practice (one fully rotated one even caught on tape at 2001 Skate America). So why not keeping working on it?! She has the small powerful compact build, the super fast quick-twitch muscle reflex action, the determination, the ability & the guts to do so. So I say more power to her. However, I say forget about the triple axel jump (for now)........even though I've always said that she should've experimented w/this jump instead of the quad.......but since she has only worked on the quad (never before the triple axel), then she has a better chance of landing the latter rather than the former. JMHO.

Another factor that I think works towards Sasha's advantage is that she has been attempting & practicing these difficult combos. & quads since she was around 15 or 16 yrs. old. History says that the earlier one tries such difficult elements, the more likely one is able to acquire it. Take for example Sarah Hughes, whom was trying difficult 3/3 combos. way back at the age of 13, even landing her first triple- triple, a 3R/3R btw, at 1999 Nationals. Not to forget to mention the queen of them all ~ Midori Ito ~ whom began experimenting w/the triple axel (& the quad, though she broke her ankle trying & thus desisted) at ages 12/13, finally landing the first ever triple axel (for a lady) in competition at age 19. Btw, she also became the first lady skater ever to land a triple-triple, the 3T/3T, @ 1981 Jr. Worlds at the age of 11!

Peace & Love, Nadine

Citius, Altius, Fortius ~ faster, higher, stronger - Olympic Motto.
GOOOOOOOOOOOO SASHA!!!

mzheng said:

Rgirl, knowing you are in no way try to critisizing MK.

But all BG said was, if team Sarah knew team Kwan had one 3/3 planned then she needed plan two 3/3s. And you can plan only when you have landed them in practice. Planned in program has nothing to do with actually doing them in competetion or landing them. One may falted at landing the planned one. One may just not try it if she sensed that she could win without attempt it in risk.

And to be fair, at season 01/02 Sarah always had 2 3/3 planned. But she actually only landed once at the right time and right place. which won her a big price.

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Hey Mzheng,
I agree that that's what Berthes Ghost meant, that if team Sarah knew team Kwan had one 3/3 planned they needed two. I just thought the actual wording was confusing. But then, I confuse myself with my own wording sometimes so hey, it happens

Anyway, your point about Sarah have always planned two 3/3 all season but only landing them at the Olympics is a good one. Strategy is a tough business in figure skating, as I don't have to even say. Somebody can land 3/3s in practice all the time but not at competitions and vice versa. So how do other skaters plan their strategies and balance the risk of injury? Like they say, Sometimes the ice slips for you, sometimes against you. But then that's why we love it! Thanks for your commens.
Rgirl
BTW, OT again, when I watched my tape of Michelle's Olympic LP the other day, WOW! Her skating is so different--at least to me. The way she's been skating since Nats '03 has passion and abandon plus jumps that are so centered that you think she can't possibly fall. A very interesting contrast. She really became a whole new skater, IMO, between the end of the '02 season and Nats '03, which is only about eight months. AMAZING!