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Thread: Programs for 2013-2014 season

  1. #166
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    Yeah i think Gracie needs something that goes well with her speed and power. Something uptempo. I don't know if Gracie can pull off a pwetty princess type program yet. Hopefully working with Marina will help with her posture performance ability and transitions.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Yeah i think Gracie needs something that goes well with her speed and power. Something uptempo. I don't know if Gracie can pull off a pwetty princess type program yet. Hopefully working with Marina will help with her posture performance ability and transitions.
    I know what you mean, but Zoueva has done great things with skaters in the past. I won't knock it 'til I see it.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Interesting, the music is something totally different from SOTR and TGWTFH, I hope the program itself won't be ethereal/soft/sweet, too! But, knowing Buttle, I'm sure it will be great!
    great choice if it was, I have a feeling her SP will be to "The girl with flaxen hair" as it was WELL RECEIVED her FS will probably change.

  4. #169
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    Sleeping Beauty? That music worked well for Zijun Li because she is soft, graceful and lyrical. Gracie is none of those things. I think she has to skate to fast music that shows off her speed and power and hides her total lack of musicality. I don't see her being able to interpret Sleeping Beauty convincingly, outside of the superficiality of wearing another sparkly-pagenty dress.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Sleeping Beauty? That music worked well for Zijun Li because she is soft, graceful and lyrical. Gracie is none of those things. I think she has to skate to fast music that shows off her speed and power and hides her total lack of musicality. I don't see her being able to interpret Sleeping Beauty convincingly, outside of the superficiality of wearing another sparkly-pagenty dress.
    Even if you don't like Gracie Gold, give the girl some credit for effort. She's made significant improvements in interpretation this season, gets higher PCS than Li anyway, and will be working with the likes of Marina Zoueva, who is a much better choreographer than Scott Brown. No, the FS probably won't be perfect in musicality--Gracie will still be a new senior, not Yuna Kim. But to say that she has NO musicality is an exaggeration.

    I don't understand why people are so trigger-happy in shooting down the music before they've even seen her skate to it.

    ETA: I believe that this quote from Emerson concisely sums up my entire experience with competitive figure skating: "Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be."

    ETA #2: I have a suspicion that Gracie will be skating to the waltz from the ballet, which, contrary to popular belief, is not light and lyrical the whole way through. Certainly it has its gentle parts--it's a waltz, after all, and there are parts like the "Once Upon a Dream" motif, but the piece as a whole doesn't suggest that it can only be skated to by a pretty little pixie.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_oP2ltuNyk

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    I know what you mean - but on the other hand, it may help him evade/shake off the "Just a Jumper" label; if SHE is choreographing for him, then he MUST be "Artistic", don't y'know? (And you know how the "Just a Jumper" label sticks - and how absolutely lethal it can be! Anything to avoid that, right? )
    I think the Jumper label will stick anyway if he goes for five quads.

    I was hoping for more fun like Tron and WSS, not some samey recycled piece of junk that Lori fishes out for him. :(

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Gracie Gold will skate to The Sleeping Beauty for her FS, choreographed by Marina Zoueva and Oleg Epstein. No news yet on her SP music.

    Interested to see how this will look. Her first competition of the Olympic season will be at Skate Milwaukee in July.

    http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    I like the change in choreographers! I'm eager to see how working with Zoueva will change Gracie's presentation out there on the ice.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Even if you don't like Gracie Gold, give the girl some credit for effort. She's made significant improvements in interpretation this season, gets higher PCS than Li anyway, and will be working with the likes of Marina Zoueva, who is a much better choreographer than Scott Brown. No, the FS probably won't be perfect in musicality--Gracie will still be a new senior, not Yuna Kim. But to say that she has NO musicality is an exaggeration.
    I don’t dislike Gracie. I think she has wonderful technical abilities. She's exciting to watch when she lands all of her jumps. But I don’t think she has any artistic merit as a skater. I’ve never seen her demonstrate an ounce of musicality in her programs. The few choreographic moves she does seem regurgitated and disconnected from the music. That could be because her programs were so poorly choreographed (maybe she will progress now that she has a real choreographer.) But she doesn’t pay attention to the nuances of her music (she skates right through the music to her next jump) and she doesn’t project to the audience or try to sell her programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I don't understand why people are so trigger-happy in shooting down the music before they've even seen her skate to it.
    The Sleeping Beauty is a good musical selection for balletic, elegant, graceful skaters (like Alissa Czisny, for example.) Gracie Gold doesn’t have the qualities necessary to interpret the music. She is not balletic, graceful, or elegant. She needs to skate to uptempo, powerful music that highlights her strengths as a skater. She is an athletic skater, not a pretty princess type. She needs to develop her style on the ice and I’m not sure how this musical selection will do that for her. (And hopefully she doesn’t wear a sparkly pink dress that makes her look like some beauty pageant contestant when she skates this program.)

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I don’t dislike Gracie. I think she has wonderful technical abilities. She's exciting to watch when she lands all of her jumps. But I don’t think she has any artistic merit as a skater. I’ve never seen her demonstrate an ounce of musicality in her programs. The few choreographic moves she does seem regurgitated and disconnected from the music. That could be because her programs were so poorly choreographed (maybe she will progress now that she has a real choreographer.) But she doesn’t pay attention to the nuances of her music (she skates right through the music to her next jump) and she doesn’t project to the audience or try to sell her programs.

    The Sleeping Beauty is a good musical selection for balletic, elegant, graceful skaters (like Alissa Czisny, for example.) Gracie Gold doesn’t have the qualities necessary to interpret the music. She is not balletic, graceful, or elegant. She needs to skate to uptempo, powerful music that highlights her strengths as a skater. She is an athletic skater, not a pretty princess type. She needs to develop her style on the ice and I’m not sure how this musical selection will do that for her. (And hopefully she doesn’t wear a sparkly pink dress that makes her look like some beauty pageant contestant when she skates this program.)
    I'll take your word for it that you don't dislike Gracie, but you do have a lot of redundant, beating-a-dead-horse criticism to offer every time her name is mentioned. We understand that she's not the best at musical interpretation. I've no sour grapes about her--I'm just glad that she was able to raise her PCS more than three points between the GP and WTT.

    In any case, anything we say at this point is pure speculation. Until we hear the actual cuts of music and see Gracie skating to it, it would be rash to automatically assume that she'll look like a "beauty pageant contestant" without any observable interpretation. Marina, who's familiar with Gracie's style, likely had a large influence in choosing the music; I'll put my faith in her judgment and choreographic skills based on what she's done for D/W and V/M. Once Gracie actually HAS some choreography to project, we should see her become more comfortable with selling the program.

    Also, if she has an upbeat, fun SP like Hernando's Hideaway, Sleeping Beauty would be a welcome contrast. She won't learn to be more musical unless she's pushed emotionally by a piece of this nature. If I dislike the program after seeing it, I'll gladly admit to it.

  10. #175
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    I don't mind Gracie skating to Sleeping Beauty-you don't really need to be balletic, graceful and lyrical to skate to a ballet music. Lipnitskaia isn't considered to be a lyrical skater, yet she skated to Pas de Deux from Nutcracker, which I think isn't much different from those princess-y Sleeping Beauty music. While I don't think she'd improve a lot and be artistic as 18-year-old Yuna by start of next season, I think skating to Sleeping Beauty might help her to be less stiff and more graceful.

    What I like most about this is that she's getting her choreography done by Zoueva

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I think the Jumper label will stick anyway if he goes for five quads.

    I was hoping for more fun like Tron and WSS, not some samey recycled piece of junk that Lori fishes out for him. :(
    You are probably right... (Sigh) Let's hope she picks some music with speed and verve, nonetheless, and not some "Look Pretty Program", as I don't think it will really suit him... or rather, not play to his strengths - he might execute it well enough, but one would like him to be at his best, not "merely" good.

    (I've got this sinking feeling in my gut from what you say - that "here we go again"-feeling... I suppose it will be with Max the same way it's been with Brian all these years... Let's hope I'm wrong, though.... )

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by vera01 View Post
    I don't mind Gracie skating to Sleeping Beauty-you don't really need to be balletic, graceful and lyrical to skate to a ballet music. Lipnitskaia isn't considered to be a lyrical skater, yet she skated to Pas de Deux from Nutcracker, which I think isn't much different from those princess-y Sleeping Beauty music. While I don't think she'd improve a lot and be artistic as 18-year-old Yuna by start of next season, I think skating to Sleeping Beauty might help her to be less stiff and more graceful.

    What I like most about this is that she's getting her choreography done by Zoueva
    This excites me too. Whatever Marina does for her dance teams, I hope she does for Gracie. Once her interpretation improves, she'll be virtually unstoppable.

    Lipnitskaia's Pas de Deux program was lovely, and I'm sure that Gracie's Sleeping Beauty will be impressive. If she can emote more, she should be scoring 60+ PCS at every competition. Reaching Ashley's level (64-66) should be a goal for this coming season.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I'll take your word for it that you don't dislike Gracie, but you do have a lot of redundant, beating-a-dead-horse criticism to offer every time her name is mentioned. We understand that she's not the best at musical interpretation. I've no sour grapes about her--I'm just glad that she was able to raise her PCS more than three points between the GP and WTT.

    In any case, anything we say at this point is pure speculation. Until we hear the actual cuts of music and see Gracie skating to it, it would be rash to automatically assume that she'll look like a "beauty pageant contestant" without any observable interpretation. Marina, who's familiar with Gracie's style, likely had a large influence in choosing the music; I'll put my faith in her judgment and choreographic skills based on what she's done for D/W and V/M. Once Gracie actually HAS some choreography to project, we should see her become more comfortable with selling the program.

    Also, if she has an upbeat, fun SP like Hernando's Hideaway, Sleeping Beauty would be a welcome contrast. She won't learn to be more musical unless she's pushed emotionally by a piece of this nature. If I dislike the program after seeing it, I'll gladly admit to it.
    The problem is that Gracie doesn’t have a style and needs to develop one. She is too bland and boring as a skater at the moment, because she rarely makes an effort to interpret her music or project to the audience.

    I still don’t think Sleeping Beauty is a good musical selection for her. As I stated, the music is for graceful and balletic skaters. It’s too light to be properly interpreted by a skater who is as coltish, unrefined, and stiff as Gracie. I don’t think packaging an athletic skater like her as a pretty princess with light, balletic music will work. The music is just all wrong for her, just as Life is Beautiful was for her last season (she was way too young and emotionally immature to do that music justice.)

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    The problem is that Gracie doesn’t have a style and needs to develop one. She is too bland and boring as a skater at the moment, because she rarely makes an effort to interpret her music or project to the audience.

    I still don’t think Sleeping Beauty is a good musical selection for her. As I stated, the music is for graceful and balletic skaters. It’s too light to be properly interpreted by a skater who is as coltish, unrefined, and stiff as Gracie. I don’t think packaging an athletic skater like her as a pretty princess with light, balletic music will work. The music is just all wrong for her, just as Life is Beautiful was for her last season (she was way too young and emotionally immature to do that music justice.)
    I still don't see the problem here. Like vera01 said, a skater doesn't need to be traditionally balletic to use a ballet piece, and I'd argue that doing so will actually help Gracie be less coltish and stiff in a way that fast-paced music can't. Life is Beautiful wasn't a good choice for her for the reasons you mentioned, but also because her choreography was generally mediocre and nonexistent in places. We did see improvement in her artistry after she spent time with Marina last fall--I'm optimistic that it'll happen again.

  15. #180
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    I would like one of the top men to perform to "Cohen's Masterpiece." It's so Olympic for an SP that only the best artistic men can interpret it, and it sounds like it was made for figure skating with the pauses for jumps and a scratch spin for the finale. In fact, I believe it can beat Chan's Elegy if done well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnn_UKKNv5c

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