Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 143

Thread: Sochi Games boycott by U.S. possible? (Snowden)

  1. #46
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    907
    Much ado about nothing.

    Putin is NOT going to provide asylum to Snowden. Why in the world would he? I'm sure that the KGB, or whatever the modern equivalent is called, has already harvested whatever information Snowden has on his disk drive. Given this, Snowden is less than useless. China has no doubt likewise gained the information when they "accidentally" let him into Hong Kong.

    For all his supposed top-spy smarts, this Snowden kid seems pretty naïve. He'll end up in some minor banana republic, forgotten by the time Sochi rolls around, pining for a home he'll never see again.

  2. #47
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    A far better reason to boycott the Sochi Olympics is the atrocious human rights abuses taking place in Russia,...
    Still, the games will go on and the medals will be awarded to the winners of the games without US if US decided to boycott the games. Though, I don't think US will boycott the Sochi Olympics as they did not boycott Beijing Olympics. If anyone wants to make political issue/issues connected with the Olympics, you should probably boycott every Olympic game except the one in UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Putin is NOT going to provide asylum to Snowden. Why in the world would he? I'm sure that the KGB, or whatever the modern equivalent is called, has already harvested whatever information Snowden has on his disk drive. Given this, Snowden is less than useless. China has no doubt likewise gained the information when they "accidentally" let him into Hong Kong.
    Smart China! Now Russia has gotten this hot potato. I don't think Russia will openly dump Snowden. They have to think someway to get rid of him since he has no use for them anymore but causing tensions with US. It has to be done in a sensitive way. Otherwise, Snowden will easily gather more support from "human rights" groups.

  3. #48
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    The idea that all lapses in civil rights is more or less the same is something that can only come from willful if not outright hateful ignorance. All governments can be better, but some are starting at an abysmal deficit. Regimes can falter in ways that range from erroneous parking tickets to neglecting the poor to genocide. Those are not the same. They should not be treated or considered the same. To do so is to excuse the systemic ways in which human beings make others suffer with an apathetic shrug. Evil has levels. They have to be fought accordingly.

    Like I already said, I don't expect the Sochi games to get the boycott Putin deserves. But I will judge and condemn athletes and their supporters who insist that bragging rights for being #1, 2, 3 at a glorified country fair trump other people's right to not be tortured, raped and murdered. Now I don't believe in karma, but when they grouse about how their years of training and prep may be at risk because of pesky human rights concerns, that's when I think that a career-ending overuse injury is about due.

  4. #49
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Beyond Neverland
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    The Olympics is intrinsically political. In both ancient and modern times, it was conducted with the aspiration of stopping wars. While I vehemently disagree with Senator Graham's reason for boycotting the games, I would fully support a boycott of the Sochi games. Human rights in Russia, never robust to begin with, have taken a drastic turn for the worse this year. The regime should be punished.

    And if the athletes really trained their whole lives for the Olympics, then they trained their whole lives for an event that encourages peace, harmony, fairness and respect for one another, not one that bolsters and legitimizes an administration that perpetrates horrors on citizens and foreigners. If the distinction doesn't matter to some of those athletes, then their dreams don't deserve to be realized.
    And what gives anyone the right to decide what is better for private citizens, that their freedom and liberties are any less important, and that their dreams shouldn't be realised? Just as do you really think US has never been guilty of the violations you are now accuse others of? Could there be a dark corner/closet in every nation? Starting with Snowden... and what has he done exactly other than 'not acting in US's best interest' when he 'naively' open a can of worms that the rest of the world had always suspect US been guilty of: Spying and breaking international privacy and liberties for its own 'national interests'. Does the fact the US Government got caught and decide to go on the media offensive on the leaker exonerate them for the very things they have been guilty of and have no shame? How does that make them different than their imaginary enemies?


    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    The idea that all lapses in civil rights is more or less the same is something that can only come from willful if not outright hateful ignorance. All governments can be better, but some are starting at an abysmal deficit. Regimes can falter in ways that range from erroneous parking tickets to neglecting the poor to genocide. Those are not the same. They should not be treated or considered the same. To do so is to excuse the systemic ways in which human beings make others suffer with an apathetic shrug. Evil has levels. They have to be fought accordingly.

    Like I already said, I don't expect the Sochi games to get the boycott Putin deserves. But I will judge and condemn athletes and their supporters who insist that bragging rights for being #1, 2, 3 at a glorified country fair trump other people's right to not be tortured, raped and murdered. Now I don't believe in karma, but when they grouse about how their years of training and prep may be at risk because of pesky human rights concerns, that's when I think that a career-ending overuse injury is about due.

    Evils? What happened to 'see no evil, hear no evil' (The proverb, not the movie, although the accusation might as well be a farce, e.g Bush's rampage on axis of 'evil'). Before any finger pointing, why don't you look at your own backyard, starting with the previous administration that perpetuate these crisis which breed the reign of terror on world's privacy, freedom and liberties. It comes down to who can afford a better publicists and bragging rights. What a mess, and it is an utter joke to act self righteous now through distraction on the media offensive with misplace anger. If Russia or China are caught with their pants down like this with their own Snowden, do you honestly think US wouldn't offer asylum for the said free information fighter who certainly tries to bring back a level of transparency and integrity to US values which many have admired? The last time I check the morality code of the United State founding fathers does support more of the asylum seeker than its accusers. That all men are created equal and should enjoy liberty, freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Not that some men are more equal than others, should have less liberty than others 'in US interests' and that they should be a slave to a system in 'US interests'. Just exactly what is right about lying and cheating your way out of tight situations teaches its future generations and make the whole thing right? Dishonest rationalization is still fraud.

    While I don't deny anything with national representation can be intrinsically political, yet I strongly feel it is the very reason the Olympics Spirit should always be protected. Any harm to declare its invalidation for whatever short term sighted political messaging should be opposed. Judgement should be reserved and not readily condemned, and proportionate responses and diplomacy should always be ahead of propaganda and political rhetoric. Especially when the accuser proved to be hypocrites and newly found self righteousness doesn't make its harm towards liberty and freedom any less guilty. Sport equality has been too easy victim to political messaging, and Athletes unlike big corporations or social classes are not unionized or have good enough representation other than being belong to the Olympic movement voluntarily. They are not necessarily entirely driven by capitalistic tendencies. It is where personal interests can meet national interests. Do you ever wonder if America is suddenly seriously offended by Russians's human right records and want to 'punish' them for their 'evil' deeds and views, there aren't more effective ways than boycotting Sochi? Or has it more to do with athletes are easily the most acceptable collateral damage? Why not going after the big pockets where it really hurts? Big business corporation and interests? Ban all the Vodka, Ban all the Caviar imports. Ban all the Russian millionaires/Billionaires from living and enter the US. Stop buying up petrol and other natural resources. Why don't you think you ever hear politicians say that if they really believe their own medicine.

  5. #50
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    384
    If they decide to boycott the Games, US athlets should compete for other countries. . Sorry, but an athlete lives for sports, not for politics, Graham, Snowden, Putin etc.

  6. #51
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    The idea that all lapses in civil rights is more or less the same is something that can only come from willful if not outright hateful ignorance. All governments can be better, but some are starting at an abysmal deficit. Regimes can falter in ways that range from erroneous parking tickets to neglecting the poor to genocide. Those are not the same. They should not be treated or considered the same. To do so is to excuse the systemic ways in which human beings make others suffer with an apathetic shrug. Evil has levels. They have to be fought accordingly.

    Like I already said, I don't expect the Sochi games to get the boycott Putin deserves. But I will judge and condemn athletes and their supporters who insist that bragging rights for being #1, 2, 3 at a glorified country fair trump other people's right to not be tortured, raped and murdered. Now I don't believe in karma, but when they grouse about how their years of training and prep may be at risk because of pesky human rights concerns, that's when I think that a career-ending overuse injury is about due.
    Oh, so am I understanding this correctly, you think athletes deserve career-ending injuries for competing in the Sochi Olympics? Really?

  7. #52
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,489
    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Much ado about nothing.

    Putin is NOT going to provide asylum to Snowden. Why in the world would he? I'm sure that the KGB, or whatever the modern equivalent is called, has already harvested whatever information Snowden has on his disk drive. Given this, Snowden is less than useless. China has no doubt likewise gained the information when they "accidentally" let him into Hong Kong.

    For all his supposed top-spy smarts, this Snowden kid seems pretty naïve. He'll end up in some minor banana republic, forgotten by the time Sochi rolls around, pining for a home he'll never see again.
    Yes, this is what I don't understand. Snowden thought that it was wrong for the U.S. government to collect such information on its citizens, so he gave information to the Russians and the Chinese? I can understand his blowing the whistle on certain practices, but to share an iota of our information with other countries? What did he give them? Whom has he endangered? In what alternate universe does he think this will bring any kind of good outcome? I'm glad he doesn't want to come back to America. Let him see what happens when he expresses righteous indignation against the government of his new country. Because I'm sure that this new residence of his (wherever it is) won't live up to his high standards of purity either.

  8. #53
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Yes, this is what I don't understand. Snowden thought that it was wrong for the U.S. government to collect such information on its citizens, so he gave information to the Russians and the Chinese? I can understand his blowing the whistle on certain practices, but to share an iota of our information with other countries? What did he give them? Whom has he endangered? In what alternate universe does he think this will bring any kind of good outcome? I'm glad he doesn't want to come back to America. Let him see what happens when he expresses righteous indignation against the government of his new country. Because I'm sure that this new residence of his (wherever it is) won't live up to his high standards of purity either.
    I second your opinion on Snowden. I can understand his desire to enlighten U.S. citizens that the U.S. government is secretly collecting information on them. However, I'm disgusted with him revealing any information to foreign powers or exposing any of our intelligence-gathering activities regarding other countries. In my mind, the first matter is an internal U.S. affair, affecting only us. But divulging our internal secrets to other countries or foreign intelligence operations to the press is interfering dangerously in our foreign policy and is what I would consider a treasonous activity.

    Sorry, I know this is terribly off topic, but couldn't resist adding my thoughts.

  9. #54
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Like I already said, I don't expect the Sochi games to get the boycott Putin deserves. But I will judge and condemn athletes and their supporters who insist that bragging rights for being #1, 2, 3 at a glorified country fair trump other people's right to not be tortured, raped and murdered. Now I don't believe in karma, but when they grouse about how their years of training and prep may be at risk because of pesky human rights concerns, that's when I think that a career-ending overuse injury is about due.
    That's soooo mean! You don't have to 'curse them' just because they failed to live up to your 'high moral values'.

  10. #55
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    If they decide to boycott the Games, US athlets should compete for other countries. . Sorry, but an athlete lives for sports, not for politics, Graham, Snowden, Putin etc.
    or LGBT.

  11. #56
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,011
    US won’t boycott Sochi. Snowden is headache to Putin, as he is not happy that Snowden became his problem so who knows what Putin will do. It’s his move now in this high stakes chess game. I have been to Russia 3 times, and once for 6 weeks and know something of its security issues. Interesting place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there. Everything allowed for international TV is show, but behind the scene, not so much. Sochi will be fine since Putin is spending billions.

  12. #57
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    That's soooo mean! You don't have to 'curse them' just because they failed to live up to your 'high moral values'.
    Where is "high moral values"?! To say it plainly, they just want to force others to dump their own values and take on THEIR values.

  13. #58
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Yes, this is what I don't understand. Snowden thought that it was wrong for the U.S. government to collect such information on its citizens, so he gave information to the Russians and the Chinese? I can understand his blowing the whistle on certain practices, but to share an iota of our information with other countries? What did he give them? Whom has he endangered? In what alternate universe does he think this will bring any kind of good outcome? I'm glad he doesn't want to come back to America. Let him see what happens when he expresses righteous indignation against the government of his new country. Because I'm sure that this new residence of his (wherever it is) won't live up to his high standards of purity either.
    Snowden didn't give those countries any specific information. He worked with various journalists (primarily Glenn Greenwald of the British newspaper The Guardian) to publicize things he deemed wrong. Government officials of China and Russia can read newspapers, just like anybody else.

    What has some American loyalists piqued is that some of Snowden's claims are being used against the US by those regimes in both propaganda and in diplomatic negotiations. For instance, there was much outrage and consternation a few months back when a private US security firm revealed what the US government has known for a while: the Chinese military has been hacking into the computer systems of private companies in the US. Corporations and the US government demanded a stop and was about to start negotiations with China to clamp this down, when Snowden revealed that the US also hacked private Chinese firms and phone records. As you may imagine, this put the US in a much less advantageous position at the table and in the realm of international opinion. Further revelations that the US spied on allies in Europe and Latin America alike made things even more uncomfortable.

    None of this endangered anybody. The main damage here is embarrassment. US officials and diplomats are put in a defensive position, having been called out on their country's no longer secretive violations of privacy. Nothing gets as much of a blustery reaction from the diplomatic set as when their egos are endangered.

  14. #59
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    In today's awful Russian news, the government just convicted Alexey Navalny, an opposition leader and anti-corruption activist on trumped up charges. The rule of law is deteriorating further in the country. Masses of Russian citizens are expected to protest at considerable risk to their livelihoods. EU and US officials have condemned the conviction. None of them, however, have mentioned a Sochi boycott yet. Senator Lindsey Graham has yet to speak up on this matter.

  15. #60
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,610
    Its very obvious that criminals are saying they oppose Putin to get people in the west to believe they aren't guilty so there is pressure to release them from western governments.

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •