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Thread: The decision that boiled your blood

  1. #1
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    The decision that boiled your blood

    Inspired by rivalry thread. of which I have read snippets, what battle, contest, outcome will really stay with you as a skating fan? I am thinking all 4 disciplines, and back to the beginning if you are a historian or senior here on GS.

    As long as were are civil and not offensive to other posters, I think it is a good off season topic, maybe done before in parts or in total.

    What decision do you feel was truly wrong and why? If there are youtube vids to back up your opinion, or articles, that would be great.

    I can think of only a few that I thought were really off. Nowadays, what makes my blood boil are IJS rules, a certain skater who falls a lot and wins, and the ridiculous overscoring in the ladies, esp regarding a great skater, but who gets huge point spread when she wins. I will be honest, and please, no one attack other posters. I ask you not to use incendiary language like"haters" etc. please leave ethnic divisions out of it, unless you feel that this was part of the reason skater x lost to y-their race, country of origin.

    Everyone's opinion is valid, as this is a very subjective and political sport, despite IJS trying to rectify years of scoring abuses.

    Bourne and Kraatz were perennially screwed in the bloc days. I loved Riverdance and would have awarded them many more medals. Gold to them in 98 Nagano. They were the best, and only team who actually had programs that looked like what ice dance was before it was kidnapped by bloc countries after the glorious Torvill/Dean left the sport (retired). Limiting thread to amateur skating.

    What made/makes your blood boil?

  2. #2
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    1998 Olympics is very interesting for Ice Dance.

    Bourne/Kraatz had a very good FD but their SD was trash. Their compulsories were just average, comparatively. I think 4th place was fair.

    I actually think Punsalan/Swallow should have won. They had THE best FD at that competition and their SD deserved to be placed 3rd, which is enough to put them in contention for Gold. It's amazingly surprising, because they never skated ANYWHERE close to as good as this in their whole career before the Olympics, but this really was the best - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpg5eTbos_M

    I would have put Krylova & Ovsiannikov in 2nd place. I don't really care for their FD, and would have only placed them 4th in that segment, but they had the overall best complusories and the best SD performance as well.

    Grishuk & Platov would be 3rd in the FD on my ballot and 3rd overall as well. Their complusories had some problems, which they usually dominated at, and they should have lost the SD segment of the competition to Krylova/Ovsiannikov because of the mistake they made.

    Anissina/Peizerat 5th for me. They started the competition so strong with THE best Golden Waltz compulsory, but each segment of the competition after that they got weaker and weaker. Their Tango compulsory was a bit tentative (still quite good though), they made multiple mistakes in the SD (although still deserved to at least be above Bourne/Kraatz in that segment; Bourne/Kraat's SD was seriously trash), and their FD had a bunch of missteps and deserved to only be ranked 5th. HOWEVER, Anissina/Peizerat DEFINITELY deserved to win 1998 Worlds. They were phenomenal there and would have deserved to win the Olympics as well if they had skated to that level.

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    Irina Slutskaya winning the 2002 GPF over Kwan, in the final FS. Irina had a series of sloppy jumps and missteps and should have been third in the final FS, below both Kwan and Hughes, but she was given the win and the GPF championship.

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    That the isu hasn't bother to make alterations to IJS that reward skaters who skate a clean program.

  5. #5
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Irina Slutskaya winning the 2002 GPF over Kwan, in the final FS. Irina had a series of sloppy jumps and missteps and should have been third in the final FS, below both Kwan and Hughes, but she was given the win and the GPF championship.
    Excellent choice. That was a shameful outcome.

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Inspired by rivalry thread. of which I have read snippets, what battle, contest, outcome will really stay with you as a skating fan? I am thinking all 4 disciplines, and back to the beginning if you are a historian or senior here on GS.

    As long as were are civil and not offensive to other posters, I think it is a good off season topic, maybe done before in parts or in total.

    What decision do you feel was truly wrong and why? If there are youtube vids to back up your opinion, or articles, that would be great.

    I can think of only a few that I thought were really off. Nowadays, what makes my blood boil are IJS rules, a certain skater who falls a lot and wins, and the ridiculous overscoring in the ladies, esp regarding a great skater, but who gets huge point spread when she wins. I will be honest, and please, no one attack other posters. I ask you not to use incendiary language like"haters" etc. please leave ethnic divisions out of it, unless you feel that this was part of the reason skater x lost to y-their race, country of origin.
    [...]

    What made/makes your blood boil?
    As you mention, the overscoring in the ladies regarding a certain great skater definitely makes my blood boil. It's so frustrating to see the judges continually overscore her even when she stumbles and/or falls multiple times (which has been a frequent occurrence throughout her career). At this last year's Worlds she fell hard on her combo in the SP and still scored the second highest SP score. She also posted a personal best in the LP despite falling flat on her last jump and singling the loop. She even won a World title the previous year with some of the easiest jump layout since the 1980's. Like that male skater who falls a lot and still gets excessive scores, she too has perhaps the finest skating skills ever, which apparently is so valuable that the judges overlook her flaws and falls, however numerous they may be.

  7. #7
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    Kostner's skating skills, while really excellent, are overrated. She's no female equivalent of PChiddy, Tessa Virtue or Ekaterina Gordeeva.

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    Yuna's fans seemed to forget that Yuna also scored the highest SP score for several mistakes in 2011. It's funny how crazy they become when other skaters start to get that kind of inflation.

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    Bourne & Kraatz's 4th place in 2002 was what really infuriated me. I think they deserved 4th in '98 because of their poor OD. However, they definitely should have been placed above Fusar-Poli/Margaglio in 2002. I don't remember the order of the placements in the OD, but Margaglio's huge splat in the FD should have buried that team far below Bourne and Kraatz. I know B&K fell during the ending pose but that wasn't on an element. Another decision in ice dance which made me mad was when Denkova & Staviski lost to Navka & Kostomarov at the 2004 Worlds after skating that gorgeous Handel FD. I can also think of two others, lol, both involving Belbin & Agosto finishing right behind Domnina & Shabalin when they should have finished ahead of them: 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics.

    Another decision I thought was unfair was Zhang & Zhang being 2nd in the 2006 Olympics. I actually think they should have been off the podium and Pang & Tong should have been on there instead.

    There are numerous men's ones, mainly involving Patrick Chan being placed too highly for my liking, but I won't even bother to list all of those. They all seem to roll into one when I look back, haha. There are also numerous instances of when I thought Kostner was placed too high. After the 2010 Olympics I thought that Rochette and Nagasu should have been reversed, but I watched the performances again a couple of years later and I can see why they gave Rochette the bronze now. I think Nagasu's performance just moved me a bit that night (which is odd because in theory, Rochette's should have been the most moving, given the circumstances).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Yuna's fans seemed to forget that Yuna also scored the highest SP score for several mistakes in 2011. It's funny how crazy they become when other skaters start to get that kind of inflation.
    Several mistake???
    Did you ever watch the performance?

    She lost only the second jump of 3Lz-3T combo and wonderfully compensated it by 3F-2T impromptu.

  11. #11
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, can't believe I forgot to mention the original pairs results in 2002 (Olympics), but they changed, so I guess that doesn't count.

  12. #12
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I know B&K fell during the ending pose at 2002 Olympics but that wasn't on an element.
    It was on an element, though - the end of a lift.

    The Lithuanians totally deserved the Bronze there...

    They also deserved Bronze at 1999 Worlds, Silver at 2000 Worlds, GOLD at 2001 Worlds (and Europeans especially!!!), and probably Gold at 2002 Worlds too (their FD was the best anyway). They were underscored in 2006 as well.

  13. #13
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Chen Lu should have tied MK in 96. I think even gm should have been hers. Just the presentation was mature. Will there ever be another Lu Lu? Even if mk did extra triple. that one was the hardest to judge.

  14. #14
    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    I'm not even mad about the placement for the men's at 2013 Worlds. But I am actually upset about the fact that PChiddy got higher overall marks in the FS than Takahashi for Performance/Execution and Interpretation. Patrick certainly did not interpret the music better than Daisuke did.

    (It's the little things.)

    Regarding 1996 Worlds (Lulu and Michelle): I would not have wanted to be a judge on that panel. Geez.

  15. #15
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Yuna's fans seemed to forget that Yuna also scored the highest SP score for several mistakes in 2011. It's funny how crazy they become when other skaters start to get that kind of inflation.
    It's funny how some people go bezerk over Yuna's high scores from clean skates while passing off others who made big mistakes. It's obscene if she get 150 for a clean LP but totally OK if Kostner beats skaters who made far fewer errors.

    In her 2011 LP, Yuna popped a Flip and singled a double toe, scored 128. Kostner singles a loop and falls on a Salchow but still scores 131 at 2013 Worlds. In her 2011 SP, Yuna stumbles on her 3lz, scores 65. Kostner FALLS on her 3/3 and scores 66 in 2013. Who gets more inflation?

    I'm just here to balance the conversation that started out with original poster, who is a big Kostner fan, complaining again than Yuna is overscored. It's totally fair game--skateluvr is asking what makes your blood boil, so there it is.

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