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Thread: The decision that boiled your blood

  1. #16
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    D'you reckon it's ever possible to have a thread the Yunabots vs Maobots don't take over?

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    Oh yeah, can't believe I forgot to mention the original pairs results in 2002 (Olympics), but they changed, so I guess that doesn't count.
    The decision that boils my blood is that a second gold medal was handed out. Nope. B/S are the SLC champions and fair and square.


    Another decision that boils my blood: Kovtun. Do I need to say any more?

  2. #17
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    I don't know if my blood boils about this, but I'm really sorry that Tara's extra triple gave her the 1998 gold over Michelle's beautiful program. I know I'm biased, but I'm biased toward Michelle precisely because of her skating. I never found Tara an interesting athlete to watch. She looked like a really smart child skating to pleasant music, not the best skater in the world. Her jumps were quick but low, and her delivery was age-appropriate but not memorable.

    As for 1996 Worlds, if ever a tie was warranted, Michelle's and Lulu's performances were the moment for it. Astonishing, and how lucky skate fans were to see it. There was no shame in a silver medal that night.

  3. #18
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    the men's results the last two years at worlds made my blood boils. I won't bother watching men any more.

  4. #19
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite
    I'm just here to balance the conversation that started out with original poster, who is a big Kostner fan, complaining again than Yuna is overscored. It's totally fair game--skateluvr is asking what makes your blood boil, so there it is.
    Judging decisions, man. There's really no need for another pamphlet about how forbidden it is to have any other opinion than Yuna being the best ever and our all beloved queen and so on (and I don't think she was overscored at worlds at all, but it's fine if people think so).

    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain
    I'm not even mad about the placement for the men's at 2013 Worlds. But I am actually upset about the fact that PChiddy got higher overall marks in the FS than Takahashi for Performance/Execution and Interpretation. Patrick certainly did not interpret the music better than Daisuke did.
    I agree with this. I'm fine with Chan winning, since Ten might have been clean, but he was tense and focused on the jumps with a rather generic and empty program (so the lower PCS were alright). It's how the PCS aren't differentiated enough that constantly annoys me, in many cases and in different disciplines. Chan having higher SS and TR than Takahashi is fine, mybe even PE and CH. But not interpretation. Suzuki never gets the IN marks she deserves either. Interpretation is what I enjoy the most out of the PCS categories, and it continiously seems to be the one most ignored by the judges

    For single decisions I really disliked - I tend to forget them rather fast. I'd rather remeber the great performances

  5. #20
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Bourne & Kraatz should have been on the Olympic podium in 1998, IMHO.

    Meryl & Charlie should have been on the World podium in 2009, with their brilliant Samson & Delilah program. Justice was done in the following year when they won the Olympic & silver world medals. I felt that Tanith & Ben should have been on the 2010 Olympic podium instead of Domnina & Shabalin.

    The decision that angers me the most is from 2001 Worlds. I have nothing personal against Alexei Yagudin (he totally deserved his Olympic Gold medal in 2002 SLC), but the judges got it wrong @ 2001 Worlds. I know he was injured, but he skated a very flawed free skate there, whereas Todd had a brilliant competition throughout all three phases of the competition (back then there was the qualifying round). I was (and still am) boiling mad over the judges who had the nerve to rank Todd third over all (probably all in the name of the "bloody, blasted quad"). I felt he deserved no less than silver, but I was impressed that he took it so much in stride & was thrilled to be on the podium after taking 2 years off from National/World competition.

  6. #21
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvtodd View Post
    Bourne & Kraatz should have been on the Olympic podium in 1998, IMHO.
    Who should they have been placed over exactly?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    It's funny how some people go bezerk over Yuna's high scores from clean skates while passing off others who made big mistakes. It's obscene if she get 150 for a clean LP but totally OK if Kostner beats skaters who made far fewer errors.

    In her 2011 LP, Yuna popped a Flip and singled a double toe, scored 128. Kostner singles a loop and falls on a Salchow but still scores 131 at 2013 Worlds. In her 2011 SP, Yuna stumbles on her 3lz, scores 65. Kostner FALLS on her 3/3 and scores 66 in 2013. Who gets more inflation?

    I'm just here to balance the conversation that started out with original poster, who is a big Kostner fan, complaining again than Yuna is overscored. It's totally fair game--skateluvr is asking what makes your blood boil, so there it is.
    This is the kind of crazy I'm talking about.

    in 2011 LP, Yuna attempted 6 triples, made 2 big mistakes. Skated a lifeless program.
    In 2013 LP, Caro attempted 7 triples, made 2 big mistakes. Skated a program that most people went nuts midway through.
    Yuna is super inflated in comparison.


    In 2011 SP, Yuna attempted 2 triples. 1 medium mistake. Also another terrible program.
    In 2013 SP, Caro attempted 3 triples. 1 big mistake. Better program.
    Caro should have gotten much better score.


    Crazy is crazy. Learn some sense!

  8. #23
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    The decision that infuriated me most recently was Virtue/Moir winning 2012 Worlds over Davis/White. I still don't understand what happened there. I really strongly believe Meryl & Charlie should have won that year. Yes I know some people say Virtue/Moir won the SD convincingly but personally I didn't see that big a difference between them in the SD. And Meryl & Charlie were just far superior in the FD, where Tessa/Scott had several obvious bobbles and just really weren't that great (by their own admission, too).

    Another recent ice dance decision that I strongly disagreed with: Davis & White placing fourth at 2009 Worlds. I think you could argue they actually should have been 1st that year, not 4th. I don't remember the CDs or SDs very well, but Meryl & Charlie certainly had by far the best free dance that year. Domnina/Shabalin winning was a complete joke; they should have been 3rd or 4th, with either Tanith & Ben or Meryl & Charlie winning. Tanith & Ben also should have won the Olympic bronze in 2010. Yes, Domnina/Shabalin deserved to win the CD there, but they were pretty obviously the 4th-place team in the SD and FD, with Tanith & Ben much better than them in both segments. (I can hardly bear to think about that awful aboriginal FD!)

    I also didn't like the decision to give Sale/Pelletier a second gold medal in 2002. I agree with a previous poster that Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were the clear winners there.

    I'm infuriated about Patrick Chan winning World gold last year over Denis Ten. Somehow, though, knowing that everyone else was also furious about it makes a bit easier to bear--that, and the fact that Patrick was forced to publicly defend his win.

    The decision that made me the most heartsick is still Tara winning Olympic gold in 1998 over Michelle. Even now, the pain of that still stings whenever I think of it.

  9. #24
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    1. Chan winning the LP in front of Daisuke at 2012 Worlds. I could have lived with the overall result if Daisuke and Yuzuru would have placed in front of Chan in the LP portion even though Chan would still be the leader overall.
    2. Yuna winning 2010 Worlds LP in front of Mao who skated one of her best LP ever coupled with two 3A even though one was stupidly called as "<". I don't want to start a Yuna/Mao bashing: even though I find some of Yuna's scores curious, I think all her victories are well deserved.
    3. S/S losing the LP at 2010 worlds in front of P/T. I agree though with the overall results.
    4. S/S winning silver at 2013 Worlds. Seriously? They are my favorite team but they should have been 4th, below both Canadian teams
    4. B/S and S/P scandal. B/S SP was so sublime and perfect, that even though after the scandal both teams won the LP portion, B/S still won the SP which should have left them the only winners. With Anton's mistake and all, they still skated a much more complex program IMO.
    5. Javier being off the podium at 2012 GPF. All the men had mistakes in the SP (except Dai) and Javier's LP was head and shoulders above everything else we saw on that day.
    6. Mao winning NHK trophy in front of Akiko. I thought she should have been at the best third on the night and even third overall.
    7. Alena placing in front of Akiko at 2012 Worlds. Akiko should have won the silver there thanks to her superb LP which should have given her a 10 points advantage in PCS. (Alena's LP was crappy but her SP was ok)
    8. Nakano's placement in 2008. I don't have a problem with Kostner's silver back then. I don't even know who should have been placed 4th but Yukari should have won a medal.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Judging decisions, man. There's really no need for another pamphlet about how forbidden it is to have any other opinion than Yuna being the best ever and our all beloved queen and so on (and I don't think she was overscored at worlds at all, but it's fine if people think so).
    The argument's not about someone forbidding someone from making the opinion that Yu-Na is not the best ever, but rather disagreeing with someone who is yet again complaining about Yu-Na's scores when she was clean and her closest competitors made multiple mistakes. Why don't you learn to read, man?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    In 2013 LP, Caro attempted 7 triples, made 2 big mistakes. Skated a program that most people went nuts midway through.
    You had a different experience than me. No, most people didn't go nuts midway through Kostner's program. Clapping along with footwork doesn't mean they went nuts. Any enthusiasm and appreciation for her performance was killed abruptly with Kostner's shocking and embarrassing end to her program on her stomach. That performance had flashes of brilliance but a lot of bizarre moments caused by the unfortunate nosebleed, and it wasn't one of the top performances of the night.

    In 2013 SP, Caro attempted 3 triples. 1 big mistake. Better program.
    Caro should have gotten much better score.
    Kostner's score shocked the arena for how high it was and for it beating Kanako Murakami's score, which many felt was the much better performance. The broadcast video doesn't really show how quickly the audience silenced at her score. Oh, and her backend tripletoeloop was clearly shown to be underrotated on the screen for the entire arena. Nobody there felt that Kostner deserved a higher score in the SP.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I don't know if my blood boils about this, but I'm really sorry that Tara's extra triple gave her the 1998 gold over Michelle's beautiful program. I know I'm biased, but I'm biased toward Michelle precisely because of her skating. I never found Tara an interesting athlete to watch. She looked like a really smart child skating to pleasant music, not the best skater in the world. Her jumps were quick but low, and her delivery was age-appropriate but not memorable.
    Tara and Michelle completed the same number of triples in 1998--7. It's not the reason that Tara won. The combinations that they attempted were totally different, and the way that they executed their programs was also different from how they executed them at Nationals.

  12. #27
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    IMO, V/M deserved to win 2012 Worlds as much as D/W did in 2011. V/M deserved to win 2011 Worlds/2011 WC FD and D/W deserved to win 2012 Worlds/2012 WC FD.

  13. #28
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Recently, V/T PCS at CoR and GPF: one judge gave them 9.75 for PE/EX for this program http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSE4w55Iqgk!! And, their PCS at the GPF was 69.88, with two enormous mistakes IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PROGRAM that actually affected their presentation and the overall look of the program!!
    I don't want to get into the Yu-Na vs Caro or Chan vs Takahashi debates, because I really like them all (even if I sometimes think that the marks given by the judges are not totally fair) and I don't want to insult anyone nor to be insulted
    I'm going to write my opinion on the 1998 Nagano Ice Dance result, because I have a lot to say about it!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Tara and Michelle completed the same number of triples in 1998--7. It's not the reason that Tara won. The combinations that they attempted were totally different, and the way that they executed their programs was also different from how they executed them at Nationals.
    Whoops! Sorry, Jaylee; I was typing and deleting and revising, and I meant to change that to "Tara's triple-triple." My mistake. But my feelings about the rest of the two programs remain. Things worked out well for both these ladies in the end, but I still wish that Lyra Angelica was the program immortalized in gold for 1998. I know that many fans disagree with me and many agree with me, so it's a close call even today. And, of course, it probably led to Michelle's delaying her retirement and continuing with such an astonishing career, so it was a blessing in disguise to both her and fans.

    Eyria: I thought that it was just my love for Davis/White's Fledermaus program that made me wish they had won with it. I'm glad to hear you voice your preference for their performance that year at Worlds. I can't resent Virtue/Moir, because they are so spectacular as well--what a grand rivalry!--but that program in particular deserved to be rewarded.

    Iluvtodd: I know that one of the reasons you are such a Todd fan is his sportsmanship, and that's something I value as well. He was a wonderful ambassador for skating, whether he stood atop the podium or elsewhere in the ranking. And a darn good skater.

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    I completely agree with Mirunna.

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