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Thread: The decision that boiled your blood

  1. #31
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    This is the kind of crazy I'm talking about.

    in 2011 LP, Yuna attempted 6 triples, made 2 big mistakes. Skated a lifeless program.
    In 2013 LP, Caro attempted 7 triples, made 2 big mistakes. Skated a program that most people went nuts midway through.
    Yuna is super inflated in comparison.
    Yuna's Homage to Korea was far more choreographically original, interesting and moving than Kostner's boring Bolero. For the record, they landed the same number of triples.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    In 2011 SP, Yuna attempted 2 triples. 1 medium mistake. Also another terrible program.
    In 2013 SP, Caro attempted 3 triples. 1 big mistake. Better program.
    Caro should have gotten much better score.

    Crazy is crazy.  Learn some sense!
    Caro lands a triple loop and one triple toe. Yuna lands a triple Flip and stumbles on a triple Lutz. Caro's seizure in the middle of her SP is hardly the epitome of artistry. That program was forgettable.

  2. #32
    Adiós Melon's Avatar
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    Zijun Li should've gotten higher score for her clean program at the Worlds. Especially when Kostner popped her loop, and also fell on her 3S, but still managed to get 131+ for her program. Also, Zijun's pcs was TOO low. I mean come on, a clean program receives 58 in PCS when a skater with 2 costly mistakes has 70 in PCS. Talk about overscoring

  3. #33
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    The isu knowing all men were stopping doing quads and doing nothing to get at why which was ur rules not point value.

  4. #34
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I don't know if my blood boils about this, but I'm really sorry that Tara's extra triple gave her the 1998 gold over Michelle's beautiful program. I know I'm biased, but I'm biased toward Michelle precisely because of her skating. I never found Tara an interesting athlete to watch. She looked like a really smart child skating to pleasant music, not the best skater in the world. Her jumps were quick but low, and her delivery was age-appropriate but not memorable.

    As for 1996 Worlds, if ever a tie was warranted, Michelle's and Lulu's performances were the moment for it. Astonishing, and how lucky skate fans were to see it. There was no shame in a silver medal that night.
    For me, a tie could be argued for 1998 Oly's, but Michelle was the clear winner in '96 Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Caro lands a triple loop and one triple toe. Yuna lands a triple Flip and stumbles on a triple Lutz. Caro's seizure in the middle of her SP is hardly the epitome of artistry. That program was forgettable.
    Watch that SP at Euro Championships! It's really nice there, actually.

    I don't think I need to repeat what decision annoyed me because I think I've said it already and Dave Lease was called "catty" for saying the same.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Tara and Michelle completed the same number of triples in 1998--7. It's not the reason that Tara won. The combinations that they attempted were totally different, and the way that they executed their programs was also different from how they executed them at Nationals.
    I was in Nagano working for TV in 1998.
    Leading after the SP, Kwan skated first in the final group in the LP to Lyra Angelica. It was beautifully skated but cautious and somewhat slow. It was clear to me at the time that she didn’t want to make a mistake. All judges gave her 5.9 for presentation, but the technical merit marks were five 5.7s and four 5.8s which left room for others.
    Sensing an opening, Lipinski went on the attack in her Rainbow/Scenes of Summer long program. There was no hesitation, no second guessing. Her triple loop/triple loop was terrific – her performance had the energy that Kwan’s program lacked. 6 judges placed Lipinski ahead of Kwan. And that’s why Lipinski won.
    I was and still am a big fan of Michelle. I have had breakfast with her and followed her career since she was 13 years old, but in this case, I had to agree with the judges’ overall decision. The difference was in Lipinski’s attack, her speed and the sureness of every element.
    Afterwards Kwan said, “I had a few problems with jumps but I fought through it and landed them. I don’t think I was perfect but I was thrilled with how I skated... Tonight I was more cautious. I took my time. It seemed I was in my own world, like I didn’t open up myself and really let go.”

  6. #36
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    I was in Nagano working for TV in 1998.
    Leading after the SP, Kwan skated first in the final group in the LP to Lyra Angelica. It was beautifully skated but cautious and somewhat slow. It was clear to me at the time that she didn’t want to make a mistake. All judges gave her 5.9 for presentation, but the technical merit marks were five 5.7s and four 5.8s which left room for others.
    Sensing an opening, Lipinski went on the attack in her Rainbow/Scenes of Summer long program. There was no hesitation, no second guessing. Her triple loop/triple loop was terrific – her performance had the energy that Kwan’s program lacked. 6 judges placed Lipinski ahead of Kwan. And that’s why Lipinski won.
    I was and still am a big fan of Michelle. I have had breakfast with her and followed her career since she was 13 years old, but in this case, I had to agree with the judges’ overall decision. The difference was in Lipinski’s attack, her speed and the sureness of every element.
    Afterwards Kwan said, “I had a few problems with jumps but I fought through it and landed them. I don’t think I was perfect but I was thrilled with how I skated... Tonight I was more cautious. I took my time. It seemed I was in my own world, like I didn’t open up myself and really let go.”
    Interesting account, thanks for sharing!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    Zijun Li should've gotten higher score for her clean program at the Worlds. Especially when Kostner popped her loop, and also fell on her 3S, but still managed to get 131+ for her program. Also, Zijun's pcs was TOO low. I mean come on, a clean program receives 58 in PCS when a skater with 2 costly mistakes has 70 in PCS. Talk about overscoring
    Zijun skated small and she was on the slow side---that's why she got lower PCS scores than others. It didn't help that she was making her senior Worlds debut after finishing 5th at 2012 JW, and out of the medals at both GP events this year. At least she beat Sotnikova, who finished 2nd at 2012 JW. 7th at her first Worlds was actually a good result for Li.

  8. #38
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    Well, what bothers me the most is usually when TES and PCS difference is rather huge (i.e. about or more than 10+ in LP.) In general it means, a skater provides technically superior performance yet doesn't receive proper PCS or a skater falters technically yet is saved by arguably high PCS. The latter bothers me bit more in that it usually happens when a skater falls/pops/ whatever messes up important tech contents yet PCS does not reflect it at all.

    The specific competitions bothered me in the past - Lady's LP in 2008 WC, Lady's LP in 2012 WC, Men' LP in 2013 WC

    2008 WC Lp result was just not understandable. One lady messed up most of her jumps yet somehow was saved by judge. One lady did seemingly clean performance yet didn't get any medal. One lady missed one big jump in the very beginning in her program and didn't do anything for 20 secs or so., but PCS did not reflect it at all. (But I was very impressed that she was brilliant after that fall, so she deserved a medal but gold? I don't know.) Totally disastrous judging here.

    2012 WC LP; I don't know what to say. 2011-2012 season was very disappointing season for lady's in that all top ladys watered down their jump contents. No one provided any technically exciting performance during the whole season. WC was just one example. Very disappointing. And I didn't like overall placement in WC as well.

    2013 WC LP(Men) : Whatever. That was one extreme example of PCS not reflecting any false in the performance. P/E was a big joke here. Even S/S. Lady's SP result bothered me too, but compared to this?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    I was in Nagano working for TV in 1998.
    Leading after the SP, Kwan skated first in the final group in the LP to Lyra Angelica. It was beautifully skated but cautious and somewhat slow. It was clear to me at the time that she didn’t want to make a mistake. All judges gave her 5.9 for presentation, but the technical merit marks were five 5.7s and four 5.8s which left room for others.
    Sensing an opening, Lipinski went on the attack in her Rainbow/Scenes of Summer long program. There was no hesitation, no second guessing. Her triple loop/triple loop was terrific – her performance had the energy that Kwan’s program lacked. 6 judges placed Lipinski ahead of Kwan. And that’s why Lipinski won.
    I was and still am a big fan of Michelle. I have had breakfast with her and followed her career since she was 13 years old, but in this case, I had to agree with the judges’ overall decision. The difference was in Lipinski’s attack, her speed and the sureness of every element.
    Afterwards Kwan said, “I had a few problems with jumps but I fought through it and landed them. I don’t think I was perfect but I was thrilled with how I skated... Tonight I was more cautious. I took my time. It seemed I was in my own world, like I didn’t open up myself and really let go.”
    Thanks for this account, KKonas. You remind me of a conversation I had as I was moping about the results not long afterward with a friend of mine who was a theatrical dancer. He said, "On some nights the magic just happens." I guess the conclusion to draw is not that Michelle did anything wrong but that Tara did everything right to the nth degree.

  10. #40
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It was on an element, though - the end of a lift.

    The Lithuanians totally deserved the Bronze there...

    They also deserved Bronze at 1999 Worlds, Silver at 2000 Worlds, GOLD at 2001 Worlds (and Europeans especially!!!), and probably Gold at 2002 Worlds too (their FD was the best anyway). They were underscored in 2006 as well.
    Right, it was a lift, that swinging one.. my bad.

    I agree that D&V were underscored a lot, especially at the 2002 Olympics. FP&M should have been behind them, too.

  11. #41
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    D'you reckon it's ever possible to have a thread the Yunabots vs Maobots don't take over?



    The decision that boils my blood is that a second gold medal was handed out. Nope. B/S are the SLC champions and fair and square.


    Another decision that boils my blood: Kovtun. Do I need to say any more?
    You mean Kovtun instead of Menshov for 2013 Worlds? YES.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    Zijun Li should've gotten higher score for her clean program at the Worlds. Especially when Kostner popped her loop, and also fell on her 3S, but still managed to get 131+ for her program. Also, Zijun's pcs was TOO low. I mean come on, a clean program receives 58 in PCS when a skater with 2 costly mistakes has 70 in PCS. Talk about overscoring
    I thought Zijun's score was fine. For me, it would've been okay if it was actually two points lower. Other than the performance was clean and she looked super cute, I don't really see what's so good about that performance. Her movements looked awkward and busy, and her skills are nothing impressive.

    Carolina, even with obvious technical flaws (watching her go SPLAT on a 3S<< did make me laugh though) and looking like a pair of chopsticks throughout the program, did deserve much higher PCS than Zijun for her superior skills and musicality.

  13. #43
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee
    The argument's not about someone forbidding someone from making the opinion that Yu-Na is not the best ever, but rather disagreeing with someone who is yet again complaining about Yu-Na's scores when she was clean and her closest competitors made multiple mistakes. Why don't you learn to read, man?
    I'd hardly have any problem if it was just that. If you want to defend Yuna, do it by defending Yuna and her qualities, not by bickering about another skater. It's fine to say you disagree, explain why, or tell someone say repeated that opinion enough. But getting 'revenge' by turning it around and doing the same the first poster did... that's not going to help, that's childish. All it does is starting fan wars. (Reminds me of when a poster said Yunas jumps looked a little Kanako-like now, and a Yuna fan needed to replay "Yes, thay both have huge, fully-rotated flips, in contrast to a certain other skater" - a side blow towards Mao, who wasn't even mentioned before.) If that's the reaction everytime someone just says something slightly not-positive about Yuna, what else is this than 'forbidding others from not thinking Yuna is plain perfect and the best ever'?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    a poster said Yunas jumps looked a little Kanako-like now
    Saying such BS is calling for a fight.

  15. #45
    Blue-footed Booby aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    I thought Zijun's score was fine. For me, it would've been okay if it was actually two points lower. Other than the performance was clean and she looked super cute, I don't really see what's so good about that performance. Her movements looked awkward and busy, and her skills are nothing impressive.

    Carolina, even with obvious technical flaws (watching her go SPLAT on a 3S<< did make me laugh though) and looking like a pair of chopsticks throughout the program, did deserve much higher PCS than Zijun for her superior skills and musicality.
    I agree. Zijun's performance was beautiful and certainly deserving of the standing ovation she got, but her skating was still slow, no matter how well she was packaged. Her skating was slow, her spins were slow, her jumps were solid, but not *big*. It shows that she has enormous potential, but there are things that she needs to work on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    I'd hardly have any problem if it was just that. If you want to defend Yuna, do it by defending Yuna and her qualities, not by bickering about another skater. It's fine to say you disagree, explain why, or tell someone say repeated that opinion enough. But getting 'revenge' by turning it around and doing the same the first poster did... that's not going to help, that's childish. All it does is starting fan wars ... If that's the reaction everytime someone just says something slightly not-positive about Yuna, what else is this than 'forbidding others from not thinking Yuna is plain perfect and the best ever'?
    THIS.

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