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Thread: Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics

  1. #286
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    It's a cultural thing. In India, which isn't exactly a bastion for pro-gay rights, men hold hands all the time and it isn't considered gay.

    Are LGBT people visiting or already in Russia going to have to be schooled on exactly what is gay and what is just customary?

    Heck, my bf and I should go to Russia and kiss and say "what? We're just 'congratulating' each other..."

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Oh, so what's wrong with two men and women periodically congratulating each other in public?

    Are we seriously going to get into the discussion of two women kissing being okay or hot as per Russian customs but when two guys do it it's propaganda?

    That's like when homophobic guys are like "Homosexuality is wrong, but I'm cool with lesbians."
    yes it is, in the middle east men hold hands and women are more severely punished for showing more affection
    in Russia women kiss on the lips, while men don't only a pat on the cheek but mostly practiced by elite people only
    it strarted in Catherine the Great imported from the west.

    but if you base it know, I was really shocked how low western press would report even to the most untrue cultural norms
    they didnt even reported it, only was it in the western press said it was a defiance, lmao

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's a cultural thing. In India, which isn't exactly a bastion for pro-gay rights, men hold hands all the time and it isn't considered gay.

    Are LGBT people visiting or already in Russia going to have to be schooled on exactly what is gay and what is just customary?

    Heck, my bf and I should go to Russia and kiss and say "what? We're just 'congratulating' each other..."
    Don't you think that everybody, not just LGBT, should learn local customary before they go to that country or region?


    Another article on Yahoo News:
    Mutko: Anti-gay law won't infringe on Olympics

  4. #289
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    "Zombie" is the same word in Russian and in English! I love this board!

  5. #290
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    Of course it's a custom. And Russian men kiss too, in greeting or for other reasons. Things are often more complex than they seem.

    This isn't just a Russian custom. I was introduced to several people from Spain, and one of them, the woman, stepped forward and kissed me lightly on each cheek. It was an informal situation, not a business one.

    I imagine that sports teammates in any country can have emotionally intense relationships. It's almost like the military, where people live together and train fulltime for high-stakes purposes. Years ago a baseball team (a professional team in the major leagues) won their first world series. One newspaper showed a still photo of one guy who had leaped onto his teammate, wrapping his arms around the guy's neck and his legs around the body. I mean, the two of them were totally attached and only one of them was touching the ground. No air between them. All part of the celebration. There's another famous picture of the basketball finals, when the Chicago Bulls were winning (can't remember which) their third, fourth, fifth, or sixth championship, and Michael Jordan had been sick. He still managed to give his all for the game. The photo showed him being held up bodily by teammate Scotty Pippen.

    My point is that I don't think two guys holding hands in public, or walking arm in arm, would send any different message to a bunch of kids than a display like the ones mentioned above. Anything raunchier could probably be stopped by a regular ordinance against public lewdness or indecent exposure. No need to make a special law against gays.

    What worries me about anti-gay laws is that one consequence is that "known" gays probably suffer in other areas of their lives, in ways that do impinge on their human rights. For example, are they fired from their jobs? Or are they not hired to begin with? Are they kicked out of their apartments? And would they be able to call upon the authorities to correct these injustices? Or would it be considered all right because they are viewed as having lesser rights than everyone else?

  6. #291
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    Kissing on the cheeks is pretty standard as a way of greeting/parting in most of Southern Europe. Here it's more common between a man/woman or two women, but even two men is considered completely normal, just more seen with older guys.

    I realise that kissing on the lips is a custom of Russia, but I did find it curious that it was done repeatedly and that the second one was on the podium, almost as if they wanted to be sure that they were being 'watched'. But then again, only they can know their intent.

  7. #292
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    Even where I live (the American South, not exactly a beacon of LGBT tolerance), it's a very common sight for close female friends in their teens and twenties to publicly display their affection for each other in physical forms such as holding hands, hugging, kissing on the cheek, etc -- in other words, behaviors normally associated with romantic couples. Moreover, I agree with Olympia's point that PDA is usually accepted and treated as natural in team sports (usually gender-segregated), where the physical relationship is not of a sexual nature, but rather the consequence of the training and competitions that the athletes endure as a collective.

    So, the million-dollar question is, how does one distinguish between a "friendly" kiss and a kiss that supposedly construes "gay propaganda"?

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    So, the million-dollar question is, how does one distinguish between a "friendly" kiss and a kiss that supposedly construes "gay propaganda"?
    Actually, the million-dollar question is, is "kissing in public" included in "gay propaganda"? Looks like it's not.

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Actually, the million-dollar question is, is "kissing in public" included in "gay propaganda"? Looks like it's not.
    If this is per a statement made by Russian authorities, that's wonderful.

  10. #295
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    Ryzhova and Grischona disgusted by twisting of the words and use of image in the wrong way

    http://en.rian.ru/sports/20130820/18...f-Protest.html

    remind you again, western wet dream of 2 two women lesbian fantasy
    are at it again, They have perfectly made it clear it was not an act of defiance to LGBT propganda ban, only in western media it was played as an act of defiance

    NOTE: it is common in russia for women to kiss on the lips
    it has no lesbian connotations that you see in US and maybe Europe ?

    funny how its only western countries who make sensationalsit journalism about this
    when its them who is out of touch of the whole World

    I suppose the middle ast as a whole are gay as men hold hands and kiss on their cheeks for greetings

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Ryzhova and Grischona disgusted by twisting of the words and use of image in the wrong way
    It must be very frustrating when you just want to express your emotions in a natural way, yet people view it as part of an agenda or even an attempt at propaganda.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    It must be very frustrating when you just want to express your emotions in a natural way, yet people view it as part of an agenda or even an attempt at propaganda.
    well I am aware in US 2 women kissing are a lesbian connotation promoted by the media, didnt realise its was also the norn in Europe
    but this sensationalist journalism went too far

    they also said they are married and have husbands and are disgusted how they were portrayed
    they are indifferent to this even at the athletics

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    funny how its only western countries who make sensationalsit journalism about this
    when its them who is out of touch of the whole World
    On this one, the western media have slapped on their own face. The Russian athletes who kissed each other said the western media fuss on this is "sick fantasy". http://abcnews.go.com/International/...s.yahoo.com%2F


    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    It must be very frustrating when you just want to express your emotions in a natural way, yet people view it as part of an agenda or even an attempt at propaganda.
    I think you've taken it out of context. It's their country and their culture. Even Russian gay people know that.

  14. #299
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    This article and video was on Huff Post this morning.
    Transgender woman beaten in public park
    In the video, the victim is repeatedly beaten and kicked over the entirety of her head and body while being dragged around the park by the men for several minutes, at one point by her underwear. The title of the video reportedly translates roughly to a reference of the transgender woman as a "homosexual" and then continues by saying "view from 16 years old." It is unclear whose age the number 16 refers to.
    The woman appears to escape towards the end of the video and the viewer can then see one of the men rifling through the contents of her purse. At least one bystander is present throughout the attack, though no attempt is made to stop the men.
    This terrifying video is unfortunately not to first of its kind to emerge following Russia's passage of anti-gay "propaganda" legislation. As previously reported, a disturbing trend among Russian social media involves anti-gay and anti-trans Russian hate groups luring young gay and trans individuals through the Internet into a real life meeting. The self-proclaimed "vigilantes" then beat, torture and humiliate the young victims while filming the attack, and then post the video on popular Russian social media sites.

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    This article and video was on Huff Post this morning.
    Transgender woman beaten in public park
    In the video, the victim is repeatedly beaten and kicked over the entirety of her head and body while being dragged around the park by the men for several minutes, at one point by her underwear. The title of the video reportedly translates roughly to a reference of the transgender woman as a "homosexual" and then continues by saying "view from 16 years old." It is unclear whose age the number 16 refers to.
    The woman appears to escape towards the end of the video and the viewer can then see one of the men rifling through the contents of her purse. At least one bystander is present throughout the attack, though no attempt is made to stop the men.
    This terrifying video is unfortunately not to first of its kind to emerge following Russia's passage of anti-gay "propaganda" legislation. As previously reported, a disturbing trend among Russian social media involves anti-gay and anti-trans Russian hate groups luring young gay and trans individuals through the Internet into a real life meeting. The self-proclaimed "vigilantes" then beat, torture and humiliate the young victims while filming the attack, and then post the video on popular Russian social media sites.
    Give me a link, please...

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