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Thread: Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Whereas all children born to hetero couples are conceived 100% naturally.
    That is an ethical effort to help the hetero couples who have medical conditions and could not conceive children on their own. While homosexual union is an un-natural union for off springs by nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Bigotry, however, is quite disgusting.
    It is really obvious that the one who overly reacted all the time and cannot stand even remotely different opinions is the bigot.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Sexual orientation has nothing to do with fertility. There is nothing preventing a gay man from conceiving a child with a woman (straight or lesbian). Biology doesn't care about whether the parents are into the same gender. An egg from a straight/gay woman can be fertilized by the sperm of a gay/straight man.
    And you call that is not a mess? So the children will be decided by the adult to have either a biological father or a biological mother or none biologically.

  2. #527
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    Oh gosh. You are sooo wrong. They know what "we" know, they are not stupid. They just have different views on gays than the one you have.
    It is also not true that they hate gay people, it is MSM propaganda. They just don't want pro-gay propaganda, like in some schools in US or Canada.
    And sorry, what the heck have this website "saviour.com to do with Ortodox Christianity?

  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I agree with many things in Amori's post, especially about Russians needing to be educated. It's a huge hurdle that the laws actually prevent people from educating Russian people about their misinformed notions about the LGBT community. Not that most are even open to changing their perceptions, even if they are presented valid, logical reasons and facts.
    Could you explain to me how the "law prevent Russians from educating themselves about themselves about misinformed notions about LGBT community"? How does it prevent them? You mean they can not read? They do not have internet? They don't know English? How does the law prevents them from learning?
    Also why do you think that YOU are right and THEY are wrong?
    Perhaps they do want to lower HIV infections?
    "Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM))a represent approximately 2% of the United States population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2010, young MSM (aged 13-24 years) accounted for 72% of new HIV infections among all persons aged 13 to 24, and 30% of new infections among all MSM. At the end of 2010, an estimated 489,121 (56%) persons living with an HIV diagnosis in the United States were MSM or MSM-IDU.
    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html

  4. #529
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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  5. #530
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    That is an ethical effort to help the hetero couples who have medical conditions and could not conceive children on their own. While homosexual union is an un-natural union for off springs by nature.
    So you're not opposed to unnatural medical interventions, you are simply opposed to them if you disapprove of the parents' sexual orientation and marital status? Are single people allowed to have kids, or is it only okay for hetero couples with medical conditions?

    It is really obvious that the one who overly reacted all the time and cannot stand even remotely different opinions is the bigot.
    No, consistently expressing bigoted opinions and/or acting on them is a reflection of someone being a bigot, not calling out such opinions and behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by katia View Post
    Could you explain to me how the "law prevent Russians from educating themselves about themselves about misinformed notions about LGBT community"? How does it prevent them? You mean they can not read? They do not have internet? They don't know English? How does the law prevents them from learning?
    Also why do you think that YOU are right and THEY are wrong?
    Perhaps they do want to lower HIV infections?
    Maybe you should read more about HIV/AIDS in other places, such as Africa. It's having unsafe sex that puts one at greater risk of AIDS and various STIs. So if you want to decrease infection rates, perhaps it would be better to have sex education that addresses a broader spectrum of sexuality, so that everyone knows how to best protect themselves and their partners.

    I don't think the Russian laws are about that, anyway. And if people believe that "gay propaganda" is dangerous, then yes, I do think they are grossly misinformed about LGBT issues, whether by circumstance or by choice.

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    So you're not opposed to unnatural medical interventions, you are simply opposed to them if you disapprove of the parents' sexual orientation and marital status? Are single people allowed to have kids, or is it only okay for hetero couples with medical conditions?
    The point is not whether I oppose it or not. The point is it is not nature's intention. Even if every single person on the earth supports it, it is still against nature. Please tell me if having kids by a single person is fair to the kids?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    No, consistently expressing bigoted opinions and/or acting on them is a reflection of someone being a bigot, not calling out such opinions and behavior.
    Use the word to define that word?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Maybe you should read more about HIV/AIDS in other places, such as Africa. It's having unsafe sex that puts one at greater risk of AIDS and various STIs. So if you want to decrease infection rates, perhaps it would be better to have sex education that addresses a broader spectrum of sexuality, so that everyone knows how to best protect themselves and their partners.

    I don't think the Russian laws are about that, anyway. And if people believe that "gay propaganda" is dangerous, then yes, I do think they are grossly misinformed about LGBT issues, whether by circumstance or by choice.
    Isn't using statistics of that country the best resource when talking about that country? Why should anyone go considering Africa when people are talking about the United States? As if people don't know about the situation in Africa?

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    That is an ethical effort to help the hetero couples who have medical conditions and could not conceive children on their own. While homosexual union is an un-natural union for off springs by nature.

    And you call that is not a mess? So the children will be decided by the adult to have either a biological father or a biological mother or none biologically.
    No, the father can be a gay or straight man and the mother can be a gay or straight woman. I don't get why this is such a difficult concept for you to understand... man + woman = kid... whether the man or woman is gay or straight has nothing to do with their biological ability to procreate.

    Also, there are plenty of kids who are raised without their biological father or biological mother. And also kids who are raised by neither biological parent.

    If you've ever had oral sex or sex for the purpose of pleasure and not actually conceiving kids, or sex while on birth control, then - like homosexuals - you are having sexual union that isn't for the purpose of creating offspring. And I don't think I need to tell you that the majority of sexual interactions aren't for the purpose of conception.

  8. #533
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    I'm talking about the affects on children, but you are talking about sex for pleasure. Isn't that obvious that the bases and the points of interests are totally different from the get go?!



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  9. #534
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Isn't using statistics of that country the best resource when talking about that country? Why should anyone go considering Africa when people are talking about the United States? As if people don't know about the situation in Africa?[/QUOTE]
    Katia brought up HIV/AIDS in the United States to provide reasoning for Russian legislation. I pointed out that her argument was problematic and mischaracterized the risk factors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    The point is not whether I oppose it or not. The point is it is not nature's intention. Even if every single person on the earth supports it, it is still against nature. Please tell me if having kids by a single person is fair to the kids?
    Oh, charming. So people only deserve to have children if they are able to find a heterosexual partner that they wish to marry?

    The President of the United States was raised for part of his childhood by a single mother and spent some time with his grandparents as well. Many other wonderful kids and adults have been raised in various types of non-traditional families. A child deserves a loving home and good care. Such care does not have to be provided by two heterosexual, cis-gendered, married (to each other) people of the opposite sex.

    But you know what, there's no point reasoning with you, because over time you've only gotten more entrenched in your homophobic, narrow-minded views. I don't understand homophobia and I never will, so there is no chance that I will be able to get through to you.

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by katia View Post
    Could you explain to me how the "law prevent Russians from educating themselves about themselves about misinformed notions about LGBT community"? How does it prevent them? You mean they can not read? They do not have internet? They don't know English? How does the law prevents them from learning?
    Also why do you think that YOU are right and THEY are wrong?
    Perhaps they do want to lower HIV infections?
    "Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM))a represent approximately 2% of the United States population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2010, young MSM (aged 13-24 years) accounted for 72% of new HIV infections among all persons aged 13 to 24, and 30% of new infections among all MSM. At the end of 2010, an estimated 489,121 (56%) persons living with an HIV diagnosis in the United States were MSM or MSM-IDU.
    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html
    Because anything that normalizes gay people and removes stigma through education - e.g. stats that we're not pedophiles or that we're not indoctrinating kids into becoming gay or that we're not all infected with HIV or that gay people can live happy, productive lives - is seen as illegal and gay "propaganda". I mean, for a Russian gay man to even SAY they are normal is considered propaganda. Thus you can't even educate people about why you should be considered normal, as that is decreed as illegal.

    And actually katia, straight women (and more specifically, women of colour) are the fastest growing HIV-infected demographic, not gay men. But, in Russia, educating people about this fact and educating people that HIV isn't a "gay disease" and is something that all demographics can (and do) get, would be "normalizing" gay people and thus gay propaganda.

    It's also incredibly rude when people think it's okay to suggest a man will get HIV/AIDS if he's gay... would you go up to Michelle Obama and say, "You'll probably get HIV, because as a woman of colour, your demographic is the fastest growing group of HIV transfers"? It is also naive (and dangerous) to think as a straight person - regardless of gender or race - you are immune from getting HIV/AIDS by virtue of not sleeping with LGBT people.

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    The President of the United States was raised by a single mother.
    That is not accurant at all. Obama's parents were married even though it didn't workout. Later his mother was re-married to try to give Obama a balanced family. Obama has a half sister. Obviously that was not the same as a single person who never intended to give a child a fair and a natural environment, isn't it?

    No, you and I will never reconcile because of your extremely bigoted views in destroying traditional family values.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Obama's parents were married even though it didn't workout. Obviously that was not the same as a single person who never intended to give a child a fair, natural environment, isn't it?

    No, you and I will never reconcile because of your extremely bigoted views in distroying traditional family values.
    BB, do you think that a single parent (say, a mother who intentionally uses a sperm bank to have a kid on her own) has the right to raise a child?
    Or should that child be removed from its parent because they lack a father/mother figure?

    And what if a single woman wants to adopt and raise a child on her own or a single father loses his wife and he has to raise a kid... should they be prevented from doing so because the single woman's not that child's biological parent or because there isn't a mother figure in the case of the widowed father?

    What is your definition of a "fair, natural environment" for a child? Assuming you think it means the child should be raised by their biological heterosexual father and their biological heterosexual mother, there are millions of families raising millions of kids that don't fit that description (hah, they even have a show for that - appropriately named - Modern Family).

  13. #538
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    I purposely avoided this thread but just wanted to state a couple little known facts about homosexual orientatin/behavior.

    1. brain injury can change much behavior, including orientation to same sex re sexual feelings. It is largely predetermined by hormonal affects to brain.
    It is not a choice, so laws against bedroom behavior should not exist in a secular society.
    2. hating someone born that way is illogical
    3. not enough data exists re influence on kids by gay parents. largely because its a rare situation, difficult to study due to multiple variables
    4. children traumatized by same sex sexual molestation, which is common, very tragically, often are attracted to same sex at puberty or later, even if trauma is buried.

    Pray for people you might condemn-this is what Christians are asked to do. there but for the grace of god....

  14. #539
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    We have decided to close this thread, even though it is in the Politics folder, and we don't Moderate Politics, because it has run its course and has become repetitive.


    Thank you skateluvr, for ending it on a better note.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 10-30-2013 at 04:42 PM.

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