Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics

Here's a protest by 2 Russian atheletes http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp...edal-stand-world-championships-132337366.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/18/russia-gay-law-controversy-athletes-kiss.html

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apparently it's Gay Protesting and an act of defiance; russians on vk were having a good laugh about this
apparently they dont know its common congratulatory in Russia for women to kiss on the lips

I know Americans equate 2 women kiss as erotic and hidden male lesbian fanstasy
but Id dint know its the same in Europe ?

Oh, so what's wrong with two men and women periodically congratulating each other in public?

Are we seriously going to get into the discussion of two women kissing being okay or hot as per Russian customs but when two guys do it it's propaganda?

That's like when homophobic guys are like "Homosexuality is wrong, but I'm cool with lesbians."

Looks like Toni and SkyFly are right.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/303696.page

A poster said: Platonic "lip kissing" between friends and family members

Is it a cultural thing? My family is from Russia, and it was the norm for my family members to kiss each other on the lips, and close friends as well. However, I grew up here in the United States and it's very rare to see anyone kiss anyone on the lips besides a romantic partner. I don't know if it's because here kissing on the lips is seen as only sexual, or what? I become a bit self conscience, and tend to be more reserved in public. I fear that I'll be viewed as someone from that SNL skit. What is/is not appropriate in your eyes? My grandmother and mother still kiss all of her children on the lips, and mine as well. It's just the way it is, but I'm wary of how others receive it.

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CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Oh, so what's wrong with two men and women periodically congratulating each other in public?

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So what you were fighting for - re: kissing in the public - might be alright after all because it's within their customs.

It's a cultural thing. In India, which isn't exactly a bastion for pro-gay rights, men hold hands all the time and it isn't considered gay.

Are LGBT people visiting or already in Russia going to have to be schooled on exactly what is gay and what is just customary?

Heck, my bf and I should go to Russia and kiss and say "what? We're just 'congratulating' each other..."

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Oh, so what's wrong with two men and women periodically congratulating each other in public?

Are we seriously going to get into the discussion of two women kissing being okay or hot as per Russian customs but when two guys do it it's propaganda?

That's like when homophobic guys are like "Homosexuality is wrong, but I'm cool with lesbians."

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yes it is, in the middle east men hold hands and women are more severely punished for showing more affection
in Russia women kiss on the lips, while men don't only a pat on the cheek but mostly practiced by elite people only
it strarted in Catherine the Great imported from the west.

but if you base it know, I was really shocked how low western press would report even to the most untrue cultural norms
they didnt even reported it, only was it in the western press said it was a defiance, lmao

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

It's a cultural thing. In India, which isn't exactly a bastion for pro-gay rights, men hold hands all the time and it isn't considered gay.

Are LGBT people visiting or already in Russia going to have to be schooled on exactly what is gay and what is just customary?

Heck, my bf and I should go to Russia and kiss and say "what? We're just 'congratulating' each other..."

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Don't you think that everybody, not just LGBT, should learn local customary before they go to that country or region?


Another article on Yahoo News:
Mutko: Anti-gay law won't infringe on Olympics

Johar said:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/international/2013/08/14/open-mic-russia-gays.cnn.html

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"Zombie" is the same word in Russian and in English! I love this board!

Of course it's a custom. And Russian men kiss too, in greeting or for other reasons. Things are often more complex than they seem.

This isn't just a Russian custom. I was introduced to several people from Spain, and one of them, the woman, stepped forward and kissed me lightly on each cheek. It was an informal situation, not a business one.

I imagine that sports teammates in any country can have emotionally intense relationships. It's almost like the military, where people live together and train fulltime for high-stakes purposes. Years ago a baseball team (a professional team in the major leagues) won their first world series. One newspaper showed a still photo of one guy who had leaped onto his teammate, wrapping his arms around the guy's neck and his legs around the body. I mean, the two of them were totally attached and only one of them was touching the ground. No air between them. All part of the celebration. There's another famous picture of the basketball finals, when the Chicago Bulls were winning (can't remember which) their third, fourth, fifth, or sixth championship, and Michael Jordan had been sick. He still managed to give his all for the game. The photo showed him being held up bodily by teammate Scotty Pippen.

My point is that I don't think two guys holding hands in public, or walking arm in arm, would send any different message to a bunch of kids than a display like the ones mentioned above. Anything raunchier could probably be stopped by a regular ordinance against public lewdness or indecent exposure. No need to make a special law against gays.

What worries me about anti-gay laws is that one consequence is that "known" gays probably suffer in other areas of their lives, in ways that do impinge on their human rights. For example, are they fired from their jobs? Or are they not hired to begin with? Are they kicked out of their apartments? And would they be able to call upon the authorities to correct these injustices? Or would it be considered all right because they are viewed as having lesser rights than everyone else?

Kissing on the cheeks is pretty standard as a way of greeting/parting in most of Southern Europe. Here it's more common between a man/woman or two women, but even two men is considered completely normal, just more seen with older guys.

I realise that kissing on the lips is a custom of Russia, but I did find it curious that it was done repeatedly and that the second one was on the podium, almost as if they wanted to be sure that they were being 'watched'. But then again, only they can know their intent.

Even where I live (the American South, not exactly a beacon of LGBT tolerance), it's a very common sight for close female friends in their teens and twenties to publicly display their affection for each other in physical forms such as holding hands, hugging, kissing on the cheek, etc -- in other words, behaviors normally associated with romantic couples. Moreover, I agree with Olympia's point that PDA is usually accepted and treated as natural in team sports (usually gender-segregated), where the physical relationship is not of a sexual nature, but rather the consequence of the training and competitions that the athletes endure as a collective.

So, the million-dollar question is, how does one distinguish between a "friendly" kiss and a kiss that supposedly construes "gay propaganda"?

ForeverFish said:

So, the million-dollar question is, how does one distinguish between a "friendly" kiss and a kiss that supposedly construes "gay propaganda"?

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Actually, the million-dollar question is, is "kissing in public" included in "gay propaganda"? Looks like it's not.

Bluebonnet said:

Actually, the million-dollar question is, is "kissing in public" included in "gay propaganda"? Looks like it's not.

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If this is per a statement made by Russian authorities, that's wonderful.

Ryzhova and Grischona disgusted by twisting of the words and use of image in the wrong way :thumbsup:

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20130820/1...s-Deny-Podium-Kiss-was-an-Act-of-Protest.html

remind you again, western wet dream of 2 two women lesbian fantasy
are at it again, They have perfectly made it clear it was not an act of defiance to LGBT propganda ban, only in western media it was played as an act of defiance

NOTE: it is common in russia for women to kiss on the lips
it has no lesbian connotations that you see in US and maybe Europe ?

funny how its only western countries who make sensationalsit journalism about this
when its them who is out of touch of the whole World :scratch:

I suppose the middle ast as a whole are gay as men hold hands and kiss on their cheeks for greetings

sky_fly20 said:

Ryzhova and Grischona disgusted by twisting of the words and use of image in the wrong way :thumbsup:

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It must be very frustrating when you just want to express your emotions in a natural way, yet people view it as part of an agenda or even an attempt at propaganda.

Buttercup said:

It must be very frustrating when you just want to express your emotions in a natural way, yet people view it as part of an agenda or even an attempt at propaganda.

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well I am aware in US 2 women kissing are a lesbian connotation promoted by the media, didnt realise its was also the norn in Europe
but this sensationalist journalism went too far

they also said they are married and have husbands and are disgusted how they were portrayed
they are indifferent to this even at the athletics

sky_fly20 said:

funny how its only western countries who make sensationalsit journalism about this
when its them who is out of touch of the whole World :scratch:

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On this one, the western media have slapped on their own face. The Russian athletes who kissed each other said the western media fuss on this is "sick fantasy". http://abcnews.go.com/International...s-protest-20008811?ref=http://news.yahoo.com/

Buttercup said:

It must be very frustrating when you just want to express your emotions in a natural way, yet people view it as part of an agenda or even an attempt at propaganda.

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I think you've taken it out of context. It's their country and their culture. Even Russian gay people know that.

This article and video was on Huff Post this morning.
Transgender woman beaten in public park
In the video, the victim is repeatedly beaten and kicked over the entirety of her head and body while being dragged around the park by the men for several minutes, at one point by her underwear. The title of the video reportedly translates roughly to a reference of the transgender woman as a "homosexual" and then continues by saying "view from 16 years old." It is unclear whose age the number 16 refers to.
The woman appears to escape towards the end of the video and the viewer can then see one of the men rifling through the contents of her purse. At least one bystander is present throughout the attack, though no attempt is made to stop the men.
This terrifying video is unfortunately not to first of its kind to emerge following Russia's passage of anti-gay "propaganda" legislation. As previously reported, a disturbing trend among Russian social media involves anti-gay and anti-trans Russian hate groups luring young gay and trans individuals through the Internet into a real life meeting. The self-proclaimed "vigilantes" then beat, torture and humiliate the young victims while filming the attack, and then post the video on popular Russian social media sites.

KKonas said:

This article and video was on Huff Post this morning.
Transgender woman beaten in public park
In the video, the victim is repeatedly beaten and kicked over the entirety of her head and body while being dragged around the park by the men for several minutes, at one point by her underwear. The title of the video reportedly translates roughly to a reference of the transgender woman as a "homosexual" and then continues by saying "view from 16 years old." It is unclear whose age the number 16 refers to.
The woman appears to escape towards the end of the video and the viewer can then see one of the men rifling through the contents of her purse. At least one bystander is present throughout the attack, though no attempt is made to stop the men.
This terrifying video is unfortunately not to first of its kind to emerge following Russia's passage of anti-gay "propaganda" legislation. As previously reported, a disturbing trend among Russian social media involves anti-gay and anti-trans Russian hate groups luring young gay and trans individuals through the Internet into a real life meeting. The self-proclaimed "vigilantes" then beat, torture and humiliate the young victims while filming the attack, and then post the video on popular Russian social media sites.

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Give me a link, please...