Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics

plushyfan · Jul 25, 2013

Johnny’s World: Russia

http://fcnp.com/2013/07/18/johnnys-world-russia/

a post from Olga:

Well, to be honest, all that anti-gay laws in Russia are more in the air then on practice. I'm absolutely sure you will be able to come back, and perform, and stay as long as you want - all that histeria conserning the said law is concentrated mainly in St-Petersburg and around the single politician, generating more and more ridiculous draw laws. Just... it's actualy not a good idea to make a march-parade with slogans and mottoes on the Red Square =)

Sincerely yours, many hugs from Russia)

and very interesting Guest's post, too.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jul 25, 2013

bara1968 said:
Does this mean that gay coaches/ choreographers(I will not say the names here) in FS can be arrested in the middle of the game? OMG Someone please say no...

Exactly. e.g. How the heck can Brian Orser go coach Javier/Elene/Yuzuru without fear of being arrested and persecuted? :disapp:

Bluebonnet · Jul 25, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Exactly. e.g. How the heck can Brian Orser go coach Javier/Elene/Yuzuru without fear of being arrested and persecuted? :disapp:

Yeah, right! :rolleye:

CSG, do you think Orser is spreading gay propaganda to his students?! :rolleye:

If he isn't, why should he or any gay be afraid of?!

drivingmissdaisy · Jul 25, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Exactly. e.g. How the heck can Brian Orser go coach Javier/Elene/Yuzuru without fear of being arrested and persecuted? :disapp:

Is Elene a lesbian?

plushyfan · Jul 25, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
Is Elene a lesbian?

I don't know..But she left Orser, her coaches are Konstantin Koskin and Edouard Pliner...

CaroLiza_fan · Jul 25, 2013

To be honest, I had no intention of posting in this thread (or the Snowden one). But, I just spotted something a friend posted on Facebook that I thought I should bring to your attention.

A gay guy I went to Uni with just posted a link to an e-petition for the UK to boycott the Sochi games.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52656

Now, as far as I know, my friend isn't interested in winter sports. So, he probably does not realise how much of an impact boycotting the Olympics would have on the athletes.

I think John Kerr said it perfectly in his reaction to the proposed boycott over Edward Snowden:

golden411 said:
John Alastair Kerr ‏@Jkerrbear

#GOP senator suggests US boycott the #Olympics if Russia doesn't hand back #Snowden. Why so flippant at wasting 4 years of an athletes life?
7:27 AM - 17 Jul 13
https://twitter.com/Jkerrbear/statuses/357506873466953728

These guys and gals have put in years of time and effort in the hope of getting selected to compete for their country in their sport. Yet, that could all be thrown away in one well-intentioned stroke.

I know the people proposing these boycotts think it would be the most effective way of protesting. But the only thing it would achieve is making the athletes lose the chance to compete on the biggest stage of all. Which is not fair on the athletes, or the teams behind them (coaches, choreographers, physios, etc.)

Don't get me wrong, anti-gay laws are not a good thing. But there are bound to be more effective ways that protesters can make their point that do not involve harming the careers of the athletes!

And, let's face it, whether there are boycotts or not, Putin will find some way to do what he wants anyway!

CaroLiza_fan

gmyers · Jul 25, 2013

Orser can be who he is totally just not with under 18 year olds. If he wants to coach hanyu and Fernandez with no problems then he can't go talk to under 18 year olds about being gay on tv or internet or books flyers All the firestein stuff about being gay is illegal is wrong.

MiRé · Jul 25, 2013

What about Yuna's Choreographer??!!

Olympia · Jul 25, 2013

gmyers said:
Orser can be who he is totally just not with under 18 year olds. If he wants to coach hanyu and Fernandez with no problems then he can't go talk to under 18 year olds about being gay on tv or internet or books flyers All the firestein stuff about being gay is illegal is wrong.

I'm not sure what that means. If he has a young skater, one under eighteen, is Orser in danger of arrest? Or does it just mean that if someone (God forbid) chooses to attack him somewhere in the Olympic village, the security officers won't lift a finger to help him? It's amazing how aggressive people get when they think that the people they feel like attacking are not equal under the law.

Bluebonnet · Jul 25, 2013

Olympia said:
I'm not sure what that means. If he has a young skater, one under eighteen, is Orser in danger of arrest? Or does it just mean that if someone (God forbid) chooses to attack him somewhere in the Olympic village, the security officers won't lift a finger to help him? It's amazing how aggressive people get when they think that the people they feel like attacking are not equal under the law.

It's too dramatic, Olympia. It only showed how wild people have interpreted the new Russian law. Some purposely exaggerated it like this New York Time writer. It unfortunately

will not happen as they predicted.

On the other hand, if anyone wants to look for trouble, such as public gathering for such purpose to draw public attention, they will be in trouble.

Pepe Nero · Jul 25, 2013

phaeljones said:
Wouldn't it be appropriate, however, at this stage if the big sponsors, like Coke, spoke out and threatened to boycott the Olympics with their wallets.

This is an excellent idea. It substantially diminishes the benefit to Russia in response to its unjust law without unduly burdening the athletes.

gmyers · Jul 25, 2013

With coke or pepsi giving most of their money to Kwan and not current skaters or Athletes it wouldn't hurt current athletes too much.

gmyers · Jul 25, 2013

Olympia said:
I'm not sure what that means. If he has a young skater, one under eighteen, is Orser in danger of arrest? Or does it just mean that if someone (God forbid) chooses to attack him somewhere in the Olympic village, the security officers won't lift a finger to help him? It's amazing how aggressive people get when they think that the people they feel like attacking are not equal under the law.

If orser had a student under 18 and went on tv or something with them and spoke all about being gay and or the student did I think orser could be arrested. It really seems there must be some public discussion with a person under 18. This is what happened with the Dutch. They went to Russia to make a movie about gay youth and spoke with a 17 year old. This is what the law is meant to stop and it's the over exaggeration of firestein that is just total uber drama

Olympia · Jul 25, 2013

(referring to post #30)
I hope you're right, Bluebonnet. I know that if I were the parent of a gay athlete or coach, I wouldn't sleep well till my child came home from Sochi.

ETA: Harvey Fierstein is someone who tends to speak intensely, so that level of drama is what one would expect from him. He is an activist of long standing, and I'm sure he feels that since he has a forum, he is obligated to speak on behalf of people who can't be heard. I don't think he would call his reaction hysteria because there were generations, even centuries, where someone in his position could not so much as open his mouth. One thing that is on activists' minds over here is that there are gay people younger than eighteen, and they feel very much alone and isolated and have a high rate of suicide and of being bullied. Not being allowed to speak to young teenagers would be very distressing to someone like Fierstein, and this is doubtless what is motivating him.

Bluebonnet · Jul 25, 2013

phaeljones said:
The New York Times and the CBC are reputable.

I don't think that "reputable" matters when this article appeared only on "The Opinion Page". And I don't think Harvey Fierstein is reliable source after he said:

A few days earlier, just six months before Russia hosts the 2014 Winter Games, Mr. Putin signed a law allowing police officers to arrest tourists and foreign nationals they suspect of being homosexual, lesbian or “pro-gay” and detain them for up to 14 days.

This is purely a lie!

dorispulaski · Jul 25, 2013

Bluebonnet, do you have a link to actual text of the law?

Bluebonnet · Jul 26, 2013

dorispulaski said:
Bluebonnet, do you have a link to actual text of the law?

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/koap/13_7.html#p1495

Related section:

Статья 6.21. Пропаганда нетрадиционных сексуальных отношений среди несовершеннолетних

(введена Федеральным законом от 29.06.2013 N 135-ФЗ)

1. Пропаганда нетрадиционных сексуальных отношений среди несовершеннолетних, выразившаяся в распространении информации, направленной на формирование у несовершеннолетних нетрадиционных сексуальных установок, привлекательности нетрадиционных сексуальных отношений, искаженного представления о социальной равноценности традиционных и нетрадиционных сексуальных отношений, либо навязывание информации о нетрадиционных сексуальных отношениях, вызывающей интерес к таким отношениям, если эти действия не содержат уголовно наказуемого деяния, -

влечет наложение административного штрафа на граждан в размере от четырех тысяч до пяти тысяч рублей; на должностных лиц - от сорока тысяч до пятидесяти тысяч рублей; на юридических лиц - от восьмисот тысяч до одного миллиона рублей либо административное приостановление деятельности на срок до девяноста суток.

2. Действия, предусмотренные частью 1 настоящей статьи, совершенные с применением средств массовой информации и (или) информационно-телекоммуникационных сетей (в том числе сети "Интернет"), если эти действия не содержат уголовно наказуемого деяния, -

влекут наложение административного штрафа на граждан в размере от пятидесяти тысяч до ста тысяч рублей; на должностных лиц - от ста тысяч до двухсот тысяч рублей; на юридических лиц - одного миллиона рублей либо административное приостановление деятельности на срок до девяноста суток.

3. Действия, предусмотренные частью 1 настоящей статьи, совершенные иностранным гражданином или лицом без гражданства, если эти действия не содержат уголовно наказуемого деяния, -

влекут наложение административного штрафа в размере от четырех тысяч до пяти тысяч рублей с административным выдворением за пределы Российской Федерации либо административный арест на срок до пятнадцати суток с административным выдворением за пределы Российской Федерации.

4. Действия, предусмотренные частью 1 настоящей статьи, совершенные иностранным гражданином или лицом без гражданства с применением средств массовой информации и (или) информационно-телекоммуникационных сетей (в том числе сети "Интернет"), если эти действия не содержат уголовно наказуемого деяния, -

влекут наложение административного штрафа в размере от пятидесяти тысяч до ста тысяч рублей с административным выдворением за пределы Российской Федерации либо административный арест на срок до пятнадцати суток с административным выдворением за пределы Российской Федерации.

Google translation:

Article 6.21. Promotion of non-traditional sexual relations among minors

(The federal law from 29.06.2013 N 135-FZ)

1. Promotion of non-traditional sexual relations among minors, expressed in the dissemination of information aimed at developing non-traditional sexual juvenile facilities, attractiveness of non-traditional sexual relations, a distorted picture of the social equivalence of traditional and non-traditional sexual relations, or the imposition of information on non-traditional sexual relationships, causing interest in such relationships if these actions do not have a criminal offense, -

punishable by an administrative fine on citizens in the amount of four thousand to five thousand rubles for officials - from forty thousand to fifty thousand rubles for legal entities - from eight hundred thousand to one million rubles or administrative suspension of activity for up to ninety days.

2. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed with the use of the media and (or) information and telecommunication networks (including network "Internet") if these actions do not have a criminal offense, -

shall entail the imposition of an administrative fine on citizens in the amount of fifty thousand to one hundred thousand rubles for officials - from one hundred thousand to two hundred thousand rubles for legal entities - one million rubles or administrative suspension of activity for up to ninety days.

3. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed by a foreign national or a stateless person, if these actions do not have a criminal offense, -

shall be punishable by a fine of four thousand to five thousand rubles from the administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation or administrative arrest for up to fifteen days with administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation.

4. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed by a foreign national or a stateless person with the use of the media and (or) information and telecommunication networks (including network "Internet") if these actions do not have a criminal offense, -

shall be punishable by a fine of fifty thousand to one hundred thousand with administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation or administrative arrest for up to fifteen days with administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation.

dorispulaski · Jul 26, 2013

4. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed by a foreign national or a stateless person with the use of the media and (or) information and telecommunication networks (including network "Internet") if these actions do not have a criminal offense, -

shall be punishable by a fine of fifty thousand to one hundred thousand with administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation or administrative arrest for up to fifteen days with administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation.

So indeed foreigners (i.e. visitors to Sochi, like, say Johnny Weir-Voronov) could perhaps be arrested, if a TV interview was done and he was asked how married life was treating him, and he responded positively, but not if he declined to answer.

Bluebonnet · Jul 26, 2013

dorispulaski said:
So indeed foreigners (i.e. visitors to Sochi, like, say Johnny Weir-Voronov) could perhaps be arrested, if a TV interview was done and he was asked how married life was treating him, and he responded positively, but not if he declined to answer.

I think the interviewer who asks question related to non-traditional relationship might get in trouble too. Basically, for my understanding, they just say, mind your own business. Don't show off or promote it publicly where minors might be presence.

I think this Russian law is the backlash of LGBT's strong global push.

Pepe Nero · Jul 26, 2013

gmyers said:
If orser had a student under 18 and went on tv or something with them and spoke all about being gay and or the student did I think orser could be arrested. It really seems there must be some public discussion with a person under 18. This is what happened with the Dutch. They went to Russia to make a movie about gay youth and spoke with a 17 year old. This is what the law is meant to stop and it's the over exaggeration of firestein that is just total uber drama

Yes, gymers, I think you've expressed the thought behind Russia's law well... Thank you for, apparently against your own intentions, making the point of critics of the law.

Yes, gay people are so "dramatic." Thank you for clarifiying that.

My sarcasm is not equal to the task of responding to gymers and bluebonnet. I give up.

Moderators: please restore this thread to the The Edge. Relegating this to the politics forum--and I know you don't mean to--supports the idea that not talking about the issue is neutral. Despite your intentions, you are taking sides (with the status quo).

Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics

plushyfan

CanadianSkaterGuy

Bluebonnet

drivingmissdaisy

plushyfan

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA

gmyers

MiRé

Match Penalty

Olympia

Bluebonnet

Pepe Nero

gmyers

gmyers

Olympia

Bluebonnet

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Bluebonnet

dorispulaski

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Bluebonnet

Pepe Nero

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