Best coaches in the world in each discipline? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Best coaches in the world in each discipline?

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
This brings up the interesting question of how coaches break into the field and move up. Someone like Orser had an unusual amount of luck: YuNa pulled him up the ladder quite a few rungs by "proposing" to him and then becoming one of the best skaters ever. What he gave her was impressive, but she also advanced his career with some uncanny idea that this was the coach who would get her through the Olympics.

Sato and Dunjen are also relatively new coaches, though I gather that Dunjen became a coach before Yuka did. (In fact, he coached Yuka.) I'm sure her record as a world champion, and maybe her father's position in the coaching world, were great selling points that made her attractive to skaters.

As for coaches who made it to the top ranks because (as bebevia says) they had a "random baby" who remained with them even when great talent revealed itself, I'd put Robin Wagner (Sarah Hughes' coach but not, interestingly, Emily's) and Linda Leaver, who coached no one else but Brian Boitano from his childhood through his pro career.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I do wonder how much the "Closed to the General Public" aspect of the Cricket Club appealed to Yu Na, who was suffereing from too many camera people and too many fans following her every move, and the fact that her choreographer David Wilson liked to work there. That may have been more important to her than Orser's coaching qualifications
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Thanks, Doris; that answers a question I had had all along--namely, did YuNa choose David Wilson before she chose Brian. However it came to be, the relationship between YuNa and Brian proved fruitful for both of them, until 2010 at least.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
This brings up the interesting question of how coaches break into the field and move up. Someone like Orser had an unusual amount of luck: YuNa pulled him up the ladder quite a few rungs by "proposing" to him and then becoming one of the best skaters ever. What he gave her was impressive, but she also advanced his career with some uncanny idea that this was the coach who would get her through the Olympics.

Sato and Dunjen are also relatively new coaches, though I gather that Dunjen became a coach before Yuka did. (In fact, he coached Yuka.) I'm sure her record as a world champion, and maybe her father's position in the coaching world, were great selling points that made her attractive to skaters.

As for coaches who made it to the top ranks because (as bebevia says) they had a "random baby" who remained with them even when great talent revealed itself, I'd put Robin Wagner (Sarah Hughes' coach but not, interestingly, Emily's) and Linda Leaver, who coached no one else but Brian Boitano from his childhood through his pro career.

I know this will sound mean... and I really don't intend it to be overly snarky, but Dunjen and Sato need to add a sports psychologist to their coaching staff.

They seem to coach beautiful skaters who lack something in the mental toughness department. The talent's there... just not the grit.
 

Willemijn

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
What are the qualities of a good coach? I think that one of them is the ability to stay with a skater in good and bad times. Another is to divide your attention to your students and don't pay more attention to the ones with better results than the one who are not medalling. When I read interviews and skating news it strikes me that good skaters, like Fernandez and Amodio, leave Morozov accusing him of lack of attention. He focused on Amodio after his European victory and invited Takahashi to become his student again when he noticed that Amodio didn't make progress to the world podium. Therefore my question, is Morozov really a good coach? Apart from that I think that every skater would benefit from one year with Morozov to work on performing skills/expression...
 

sk8ingcoach

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Singles: Mr Sato, Manon Perron, Tarasova

Pairs: Moskvina

Dance: Shpilband


Can we have a thread of who we think is the worst
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I do wonder how much the "Closed to the General Public" aspect of the Cricket Club appealed to Yu Na, who was suffereing from too many camera people and too many fans following her every move, and the fact that her choreographer David Wilson liked to work there. That may have been more important to her than Orser's coaching qualifications

Which one is more important and critical to a skater? A choreograper or a coach?
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Which one is more important and critical to a skater? A choreograper or a coach?

I may not have an answer, but I can recognize a good question when I see it...

I look forward to responses to this...
 

phaeljones

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
What are the qualities of a good coach? I think that one of them is the ability to stay with a skater in good and bad times. Another is to divide your attention to your students and don't pay more attention to the ones with better results than the one who are not medalling. When I read interviews and skating news it strikes me that good skaters, like Fernandez and Amodio, leave Morozov accusing him of lack of attention. He focused on Amodio after his European victory and invited Takahashi to become his student again when he noticed that Amodio didn't make progress to the world podium. Therefore my question, is Morozov really a good coach? Apart from that I think that every skater would benefit from one year with Morozov to work on performing skills/expression...

It will be really interesting to see how Amodio develops after leaving Morozov. I always sensed that he was an amazing skater held back and imprisoned creatively by really awful choreography (done by Morozov). There was no way he was going to rise above a certain level if he stayed with Morozov. But one thing I noticed about Amodio was that he seemed to be very loyal to Morozov (at least until he announced his departure). My feeling is that he has the potential to be a better skater and rise to a higher level than he has yet achieved.

Morozov is a person who comes off as quite a colorful character in his public persona but it does not seem, to me, to be a balanced one. He takes skaters up to a really high level, adding something wonderful at first, but it seems then that everything inevitably becomes unhinged.

I can't help but think that Florent Amodio would have done so much better (like Fernandez has) under a more stable coach like Orser or Carroll (both of whom I think are a better class of coach than Morozov).
 

bebevia

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Which one is more important and critical to a skater? A choreograper or a coach?
...Mommy or daddy? Lol.

Well, if you are established and actually manage one or the other, I guess none. No-coach is often damaging while no-choreo settles relatively safer than that. The fact is, techniques need a live third-eye to polish, while choreography is time consuming prior to polish. Elite competitive skaters should have no time to risk either. Then again, if one's techniques are habitually engraved, it could go great (not as perfect) alone for some time.

The difference with skating is that you can actually choose your mommy and daddy, and not feel guilty to evaluate and seek anew. Ain't that something. :D
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I remember when Michelle fell on that jump in the 2002 Olympics (was it a lutz? I was so distressed I've never rewatched that program), and someone on this board said that if she had had a coach, he would have been able to keep track of minor deviations in her jumps and gotten her back on track during practices. Of course, these days a choreographer is especially crucial for packing all the points values into a program. Hmm. Behevia, you're right about mommy or daddy, it seems.
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I remember when Michelle fell on that jump in the 2002 Olympics (was it a lutz? I was so distressed I've never rewatched that program), and someone on this board said that if she had had a coach, he would have been able to keep track of minor deviations in her jumps and gotten her back on track during practices. Of course, these days a choreographer is especially crucial for packing all the points values into a program. Hmm. Behevia, you're right about mommy or daddy, it seems.

Flip
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Ladies: Tammy Gambill
...
Before Caroline went to Tammy, she had a mule kick to the moon. After only a few months with her, the mule kick was practically gone.
Tammy enabled Caroline to win a bronze medal at 4CC's making Caroline the only US lady with multiple ISU Championship Medals.
Clarification: Zhang worked with Kathy Casey in Colorado Springs in the spring/summer of 2011 and her flip technique improvements reportedly were noticeable from around that time. Zhang was only with Gambill for a few months that year, and was with Peter Oppegard/Karen Kwan-Oppegard by 2012 Nationals and Four Continents.

That said, Gambill is widely known for being an excellent technical coach for young skaters. She has helped Australia's Brendan Kerry (who switched to her last season) develop his triple axel, for example.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Coach - as Mishin has proved, an amazing skater like Plushenko can still win with Mishin-choreographed programs
Wich programs? Plushy's choreographers were David Avdish, Sergei Petukhov, Yuri Smekalov,Valeri Mikhailovsky. If I right remember, Mishin choreographed the very early programs.


Mishin, Fassi, Carroll, Tarasova

Moskvina, Ingo Stauer

Spilband, Zueva,
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Wich programs? Plushy's choreographers were David Avdish, Sergei Petukhov, Yuri Smekalov,Valeri Mikhailovsky. If I right remember, Mishin choreographed the very early programs.

Mishin likes to make changes after the program is ready, there are videos on Youtube with Plushenko's programs at the beggining of the season, they are very different from what we see later in competitions. The same for Liza and Artur.
 

Willemijn

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Ciocio, can you give me a YouTube-example? I am very curious to see what changes Mishin had made!
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Mishin likes to make changes after the program is ready, there are videos on Youtube with Plushenko's programs at the beggining of the season, they are very different from what we see later in competitions. The same for Liza and Artur.
Oh, i understand,yes, you are right! For example in last year Plush's SP was made by Camerlengo, to Gary Moore "The prophet" music, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxB5m7kwpsobut Mishin didn't like it, plus Hanyu's SP was so similar and he was the first who performed it,thus they replaced it. The LP choreographer was Miyamoto to Romeo and Juliet soundrack, Mishin also didn't like it, and they replaced with Best of Saint-Saens program. Plushy had a program in 2011 "Jewis melody" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gyjnsLeIw the choreographer was Zhulin, they replaced with Tango Roxanne program. Not to mention in 2010 his first LP's choregrapher was Dennis Petokhov, but...we all know what happened.:biggrin:

And maybe Plushy is one of the biggest star, he is doing, what Mishin talks to him..:laugh:


part of Myamoto's interview:

"You choreographed the program for Plushenko, also. Maybe because of his injuries, he has not performed it yet.

I feel sorry, too. But it was fun. We, Plushenko, Mishin and I discussed a lot and created one. Same as Mishin, I’m a person who doesn’t give in. So we started argument easily. We negotiated constructively, “OK, I understand you want to do this. I accept it but take that instead.....”. When we became too heated, Plushenko came between, saying “easy, easy”. "


part of Camerlengo's interview:

Icenetwork.com: It's your first time working with Plushenko -- what are your overall impressions?

Camerlengo: It was awesome. He is very good. Of course, it is very different to work with him, because first of all, there is Mishin always there, right behind you. He will say, 'I want something like this, I want something like that, I wish he could go like this.' Even before you are doing something, he gives you direction of how he wants it. So it's a kind of a different procedure for me. Normally, I create [choreography] and then I show it, and then a coach may say, 'This part, I don't like.' With Mishin, it is before I even create something. It's, 'I want something here, then he turns, then he goes faster, and then he slows down.'
 
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