Gold vs. Kim

Kim also had two full years of JGP/JW before she moved up to Seniors. The junior circuit is very useful when it comes to developing artistry and performance skills. Gold had just one JGP event and one JW; when she moved up to the GP after so little exposure, it isn't that surprising that she didn't do well in her first GP event.

Successor? Anything is possible.

But it won't happen this season. Gracie's best years will come after Sochi.

golden411 said:

I'm aware that Team Gold has shared vids of her jump training; have they posted anything comparable that is indicative of her attention to artistic improvement?
Not expecting any video from Canton; I've read that Zoueva in general is secretive.
But I'm curious whether Team Gold has showed other ways in which GG is placing importance on her artistry.

Click to expand...

She said in her blog that she's taking ballet lessons three times a week with a Russian instructor, Svetlana Kapela.

http://www.teamusa.org/Team-USA-Winter-Bloggers/Gracie-Gold/The-Season-Begins

I saw considerable improvement in her "All That Jazz" program from The Ice. She seemed to really connect to the music at the end. It's a perfect piece for her.

pangtongfan said:

She isnt going to win a major event until Kim, Asada, and Kostner retire. On reputation (along with current ability) those are out of reach for her. Which will probably be after next season, atleast for Asada and Kostner. That doesnt mean she isnt likely the skater to beat and with a good shot to win alot of major titles from 2015-2018. She will be competing against people like Sotnikova, Osmond, Li, who she is already beating consistently.

Click to expand...

She is 2-0 vs Adelina and 1-1 vs Liza. I don't know if I'd call that dominance but she and Liza are the best jumpers in the group. For me, despite whatever PCS marks she gets, Gracie is noticeably weaker in presentation than both Adelina and Kaetlyn. If she can hit her 7 triple programs she won't need to be a great artist to win, but that remains to be seen.

I think people are getting a bit too excited about the amazing things she does in practice and thinking that is going to translate to clean programs. The jumps look easy for her, but doing them under increased pressure isn't going to get easier. She was doing Rippon lutzes early last season but still was hit or miss in the competitions.

ForeverFish said:

She said in her blog that she's taking ballet lessons three times a week with a Russian instructor, Svetlana Kapela.

http://www.teamusa.org/Team-USA-Winter-Bloggers/Gracie-Gold/The-Season-Begins

Click to expand...

Thanks, FF. I knew that I could count on you for a good answer. :yes:
Apologies to GG. I read her first blog a while back ... but had missed this second one.

ForeverFish said:

I saw considerable improvement in her "All That Jazz" program from The Ice. She seemed to really connect to the music at the end. It's a perfect piece for her.

Click to expand...

This seems to be Gracie's biggest issue. She can't sustain a level of engagement throughout her program...she'll wake up at the end (I thought the end of her number was really cute) but just kinda ho-hums along the rest of the time. I hope they work on her with that. Though from what I've seen of her Sleeping Beauty program, I'm not expecting much growth in this area right now.

I think Gracie has effortless power when it comes to her jumping and movement across the ice. The amplitude of her jumps is really great. Her technical ability is spectacular: 3Lz-3T, 3F-3T, 2A-3T, 2A-3F, 3F-3S...she's amazing. However, I think Gracie is light years behind Yu-Na, Mao, Carolina, Akiko, Ashley, Kanako...Adelina, Zijun, Kaetlyn, Liza T, Elena Radionova and a number of other competitors when it comes to things like artistry, musical connection, performance and presentation. She's improving (very slowly) but she's still really behind the curve. Technically she's at the top...artistically she's at the bottom.

I agree with the Miki Ando predictions. Gracie is not naturally graceful (ironic) nor does she have an innate artistic quality about her or her skating. She is very much a technical skater: the jumps are amazing, transitions are great, spins are good...all of the in-betweens are where she's weak. I think she will improve over time but she'll never be in a league with the greats in that respect. She'll fit in with Tonya Harding, Surya Bonaly, Miki Ando, Irina Slutskaya...skaters who were known for their big powerful jumps but not their artistry/presentation/interpretation, etc. That's okay though. Everyone can't be great at everything...

I don't doubt that she will be a front-runner in the next quad as long as she gets her consistency under control...and even if she doesn't she'll still probably be on the podium. Gracie skates big and jumps big and that will take her far once the veterans retire.

jennyanydots said:

I don't have the expertise to technically break down their jumps, but aside from not doing 3L and 3A Yuna appears to be in a league of her own. The height, massive ice coverage, ease and consistency of Yuna's jumps is amazing, and this is coming from someone who is not a fan of hers. Gracie's jumps are also impressive but her consistency so far has been her downfall. Her jumps also look more laborious as compared to Yuna. Jenny Kirk has mentioned several times that she jumps with her arms and I think that effects the aesthetics of the jump.

Gracie does trump Yuna in the layback spins (well most North American skaters do) and I like her spin positions better in general. However when it comes down to skating skills, musicality, artistry and performance quality, she's nowhere near Yuna.

Click to expand...

I agree with you, I also believe that Gracie although a powerful jumper and technician, her jumping mechanism is different from Yuna's. She is indeed jumping with arms. Besides, her arms is always high up there. To me, that is one reason why her artistry is hindered, albeit all that ballet and dance training she had. She should keep her arms and shoulders down. I also agree with you that gracie has good spins.

aftertherain said:

I think Gracie's "All That Jazz" exhibition program proves that there is artistic potential there.

Miki had a little bit of artistry that she could've brought out--until she went to Morozov.

Click to expand...

I think that Jazz is just more suitable to Gracie's skating style naturally. Gracie's edges naturally goes well with Jazzy portamento. It is not that she improved her artistry a lot during the summer.

Give Gracie time. She's in the stage of her career and budding womanhood where things can change very quickly.

Yuna was one of those rare skaters who developed an artistic sensibility young in life. Not everyone is going to mature that quickly... but that doesn't mean they won't get there.

If I compare photographs of me at 17 and me at 21, I don't even look like the same person.

It's not as though she were doing nothing about developing her artistry... and I thought her Sleeping Beauty program-in-progress showed a good advancement in this area.

From a technical standpoint, if she hasn't already caught Yuna, she will soon. They both jump HUGE.

Welcome, yyyskate. Thanks for joining us. Post often, post long!

Yes, welcome, yyyskate! Your point about Gracie's shoulders is an interesting one. I do hope she masters the things she is weakest at because it would be nice to have an American contender in the next generation of skaters. I don't expect her to become the equal of YuNa, because someone like YuNa (or Mao) doesn't come along very often. Still, an excellent skater could be fun to watch even if she's not phenomenal. And you never know. Look at how Carolina Kostner improved in her mid-twenties.

That's the point I was trying to make, kwanatic.

Gracie, I feel, spends the first two-thirds of her programs getting in the right mindset to perform the last one-third. That's an issue that can be remedied by a sports psychologist, who I believe she's still seeing. If Gracie can learn to hold her nerves in check and be confident that she CAN land the jumps (which, as we all know, should not be a problem for her), then she'll put more into her interpretation.

I hope she and her team are doing what they think is necessary to raise her to the next level. I'm very excited to see her compete at the US Classic.

Maybe we are going into a different sort of era? One not dominated by one or two skaters, but several, with different strengths and weaknesses. By "different" I don't - in either case I used the word - mean necessarily either "better" or "worse", just "different". I personally think it's going to be really interesting, and since I like the new girls - in different ways, and to differing degrees, but I like them - I expect to enjoy it.

As for Gracie in particular - I don't think she's going to be the next Yuna; there is only one Yuna. But then, there is only one Gracie also, and my hope for her, is that she becomes the best Gracie she can be.

Let Gracie develop at her own pace. Enough of these comparisons which does no one any good at all. Luckily she seems to have a good head on her shoulders and isn't get caught up in the hype but is actually trying to get better.

Jammers said:

Let Gracie develop at her own pace.

Click to expand...

Yes. She is about 8 years younger than Carolina Kostner.
6 years ago (in age which Gracie will have at 2015) Carolina was 6th at Worlds.
5 years ago - 2nd at Worlds. 1 year ago - World Champion.

Gracie has time to progress.

What happened to the new posts from the last few hours?

We are looking into this. No posts have been deleted or removed. The server was experiencing difficulties earlier today.

Random Thought of the Day:

"Kim" means "gold" in Korean, so if the mods were really strict about this being an English-language board, the title of this thread should be: "Gold vs. Gold" .

Or a more expansive version might be: Who's Gonna Win Gold, Gold or Gold? And Bank All That Gold After?

Olympia said:

Yes, welcome, yyyskate! Your point about Gracie's shoulders is an interesting one. I do hope she masters the things she is weakest at because it would be nice to have an American contender in the next generation of skaters. I don't expect her to become the equal of YuNa, because someone like YuNa (or Mao) doesn't come along very often. Still, an excellent skater could be fun to watch even if she's not phenomenal. And you never know. Look at how Carolina Kostner improved in her mid-twenties.

Click to expand...

I'm interested to see how she develops. A lot of the skaters who developed into great artists were much farther along in their presentation skills than Gracie is at this point, such as Kwan, Cohen, Kim, Asada, and Baiul. Of course, a lot of other skaters have managed to do well with limited presentation skills but strong jumps, such as Hughes, Meissner, Ando and Lipinski. I think Gracie will fall into this latter group, where she can still win any event but maybe not have the best artistry of the bunch.

LRK said:

As for Gracie in particular - I don't think she's going to be the next Yuna; there is only one Yuna. But then, there is only one Gracie also, and my hope for her, is that she becomes the best Gracie she can be.

Click to expand...

What a lovely sentiment. Best post of the thread. :agree: