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Thread: Gold vs. Kim

  1. #16
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Question (non-snarky) about Gold:

    Other than her continuing work with Zoueva/Epstein, has Team Gold offered any insight as to how she is going about working on her artistry?

    I ask because Max Aaron and his team have shed bits of light here and there on his focus on artistic progress. In his TSL interview, he explained how he applies himself to mastering his choreo from Nichol. Christopher Dean tweeted about working with him. MA has said that he is taking classes in ballet and ballroom, even entered and won a ballroom competition, and is looking forward to more. Coach Tom Z just posted a little vid of one of MA's sessions with Camerlengo.

    I'm aware that Team Gold has shared vids of her jump training; have they posted anything comparable that is indicative of her attention to artistic improvement?
    Not expecting any video from Canton; I've read that Zoueva in general is secretive.
    But I'm curious whether Team Gold has showed other ways in which GG is placing importance on her artistry.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    i see grace as her sucessor if all goes well. Could a techie person compare their lps this year in terms of content difficulty across all the elements, jumps, footwork, speed, choreo , spins etc. How did they compare when both were 17?
    seriously?????

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I think Gracie is more of a Miki Ando-type - a strong technician without an artistic bone in her body.
    I think Gracie's "All That Jazz" exhibition program proves that there is artistic potential there.

    Miki had a little bit of artistry that she could've brought out--until she went to Morozov.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I think Gracie's "All That Jazz" exhibition program proves that there is artistic potential there.

    Miki had a little bit of artistry that she could've brought out--until she went to Morozov.
    Go the (artistic) way of Angela Nikodinov, Gracie! Not the Miki Ando way!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Gracie hasn't really proven herself yet. She has yet to win a major competition (or even a Grand Prix qualifying event). Her jumps are very close to Yu Na's level--when she does them. Her artistry, though, is seriously lacking. But maybe it doesn't matter under IJS. It's heresy, I know, but I really don't think Yu Na is the most artistic skater. But she is miles ahead of Gracie at this point.
    She isnt going to win a major event until Kim, Asada, and Kostner retire. On reputation (along with current ability) those are out of reach for her. Which will probably be after next season, atleast for Asada and Kostner. That doesnt mean she isnt likely the skater to beat and with a good shot to win alot of major titles from 2015-2018. She will be competing against people like Sotnikova, Osmond, Li, who she is already beating consistently.

    She doesnt neccessarily have to be as good as Kim to win major titles. The field of the last 8 years is probably the toughest and strongest ever with the all time best female skater Kim, one of the all time best Asada, and other great skaters like Ando, Kostner, Rochette, and others. Gold's competition while decent is probably going to be nowhere near that.

    It is also not fair to compare Gold who is nowhere near her potential to Kim who is already a virtually finished product. Gold could have alot of improvement left and given her talent and youth really should. Granted Kim at the same age even was already a better skater, but as I said the level of skating required to be on top next quad is not likely to be the same as it was the past 2.

  6. #21
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    Kim also had two full years of JGP/JW before she moved up to Seniors. The junior circuit is very useful when it comes to developing artistry and performance skills. Gold had just one JGP event and one JW; when she moved up to the GP after so little exposure, it isn't that surprising that she didn't do well in her first GP event.

  7. #22
    Miserere Nobis
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    Successor? Anything is possible.

    But it won't happen this season. Gracie's best years will come after Sochi.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    I'm aware that Team Gold has shared vids of her jump training; have they posted anything comparable that is indicative of her attention to artistic improvement?
    Not expecting any video from Canton; I've read that Zoueva in general is secretive.
    But I'm curious whether Team Gold has showed other ways in which GG is placing importance on her artistry.
    She said in her blog that she's taking ballet lessons three times a week with a Russian instructor, Svetlana Kapela.

    http://www.teamusa.org/Team-USA-Wint...-Season-Begins

    I saw considerable improvement in her "All That Jazz" program from The Ice. She seemed to really connect to the music at the end. It's a perfect piece for her.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    She isnt going to win a major event until Kim, Asada, and Kostner retire. On reputation (along with current ability) those are out of reach for her. Which will probably be after next season, atleast for Asada and Kostner. That doesnt mean she isnt likely the skater to beat and with a good shot to win alot of major titles from 2015-2018. She will be competing against people like Sotnikova, Osmond, Li, who she is already beating consistently.
    She is 2-0 vs Adelina and 1-1 vs Liza. I don't know if I'd call that dominance but she and Liza are the best jumpers in the group. For me, despite whatever PCS marks she gets, Gracie is noticeably weaker in presentation than both Adelina and Kaetlyn. If she can hit her 7 triple programs she won't need to be a great artist to win, but that remains to be seen.

    I think people are getting a bit too excited about the amazing things she does in practice and thinking that is going to translate to clean programs. The jumps look easy for her, but doing them under increased pressure isn't going to get easier. She was doing Rippon lutzes early last season but still was hit or miss in the competitions.

  10. #25
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    She said in her blog that she's taking ballet lessons three times a week with a Russian instructor, Svetlana Kapela.

    http://www.teamusa.org/Team-USA-Wint...-Season-Begins
    Thanks, FF. I knew that I could count on you for a good answer.
    Apologies to GG. I read her first blog a while back ... but had missed this second one.

  11. #26
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I saw considerable improvement in her "All That Jazz" program from The Ice. She seemed to really connect to the music at the end. It's a perfect piece for her.
    This seems to be Gracie's biggest issue. She can't sustain a level of engagement throughout her program...she'll wake up at the end (I thought the end of her number was really cute) but just kinda ho-hums along the rest of the time. I hope they work on her with that. Though from what I've seen of her Sleeping Beauty program, I'm not expecting much growth in this area right now.

    I think Gracie has effortless power when it comes to her jumping and movement across the ice. The amplitude of her jumps is really great. Her technical ability is spectacular: 3Lz-3T, 3F-3T, 2A-3T, 2A-3F, 3F-3S...she's amazing. However, I think Gracie is light years behind Yu-Na, Mao, Carolina, Akiko, Ashley, Kanako...Adelina, Zijun, Kaetlyn, Liza T, Elena Radionova and a number of other competitors when it comes to things like artistry, musical connection, performance and presentation. She's improving (very slowly) but she's still really behind the curve. Technically she's at the top...artistically she's at the bottom.

    I agree with the Miki Ando predictions. Gracie is not naturally graceful (ironic) nor does she have an innate artistic quality about her or her skating. She is very much a technical skater: the jumps are amazing, transitions are great, spins are good...all of the in-betweens are where she's weak. I think she will improve over time but she'll never be in a league with the greats in that respect. She'll fit in with Tonya Harding, Surya Bonaly, Miki Ando, Irina Slutskaya...skaters who were known for their big powerful jumps but not their artistry/presentation/interpretation, etc. That's okay though. Everyone can't be great at everything...

    I don't doubt that she will be a front-runner in the next quad as long as she gets her consistency under control...and even if she doesn't she'll still probably be on the podium. Gracie skates big and jumps big and that will take her far once the veterans retire.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    I don't have the expertise to technically break down their jumps, but aside from not doing 3L and 3A Yuna appears to be in a league of her own. The height, massive ice coverage, ease and consistency of Yuna's jumps is amazing, and this is coming from someone who is not a fan of hers. Gracie's jumps are also impressive but her consistency so far has been her downfall. Her jumps also look more laborious as compared to Yuna. Jenny Kirk has mentioned several times that she jumps with her arms and I think that effects the aesthetics of the jump.

    Gracie does trump Yuna in the layback spins (well most North American skaters do) and I like her spin positions better in general. However when it comes down to skating skills, musicality, artistry and performance quality, she's nowhere near Yuna.
    I agree with you, I also believe that Gracie although a powerful jumper and technician, her jumping mechanism is different from Yuna's. She is indeed jumping with arms. Besides, her arms is always high up there. To me, that is one reason why her artistry is hindered, albeit all that ballet and dance training she had. She should keep her arms and shoulders down. I also agree with you that gracie has good spins.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I think Gracie's "All That Jazz" exhibition program proves that there is artistic potential there.

    Miki had a little bit of artistry that she could've brought out--until she went to Morozov.
    I think that Jazz is just more suitable to Gracie's skating style naturally. Gracie's edges naturally goes well with Jazzy portamento. It is not that she improved her artistry a lot during the summer.

  14. #29
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    Give Gracie time. She's in the stage of her career and budding womanhood where things can change very quickly.

    Yuna was one of those rare skaters who developed an artistic sensibility young in life. Not everyone is going to mature that quickly... but that doesn't mean they won't get there.

    If I compare photographs of me at 17 and me at 21, I don't even look like the same person.

    It's not as though she were doing nothing about developing her artistry... and I thought her Sleeping Beauty program-in-progress showed a good advancement in this area.

    From a technical standpoint, if she hasn't already caught Yuna, she will soon. They both jump HUGE.

  15. #30
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    Welcome, yyyskate. Thanks for joining us. Post often, post long!

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