I've always loved Joannie Rochette's Lutz. She shows she can hold an outside edge. Her air position is good too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnMeysv5bjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnMeysv5bjc
Here's an honest question, though: what exactly make a Flutz? Perhaps we have a different understanding of it. Even tech panels don't seem to agree on definitions regarding edges and rotations. Some people, both technical specialists and mere figure skating fans, might say Yuna Lips. What makes a Lip?
Some judges seem not to be able to distinguish between good Flip and wrong Flip.
wrong vs good Flip by ISU http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=figureskating&no=1320985&page=113&exception_mode=recommend
Yuna's 13WC correct 3F which received 'e'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_QXpR4FKNk (0:20~)
Well, we have different criteria I think: I wrote that for me Yu-Na's landing position is better because it's more elegant. With "landing position" I usually refer to the position that a skater has after the jump, when the jumps is completely landed, and looking at it, I think that Yu-Na is more graceful: I personally don't like the landing position with the arms and the free leh held high, I like more Yu-Na's arms that are just above the shoulders level and the free leg that is close to the ice. Tonya's hands are both well above her head and her free leg is almost in a camel position, I find it really awkward... But it's probably just my personal taste! And, I agree with you that the fact that Tonya completes all her 3 revolutions in the air is really wonderful!Looking at the video, I'd say Tonya has a better landing position and edge. Yuna's free leg is still completely wrapped when she lands, whereas Tonya has already started opening up. Not to take anything away from Yuna, because she does have one of the best lutz's ever, but to me no one had better run out on the jump than Tonya because she fully rotated the jump in the air AND begun her landing position before hitting the ice.
Indeed. Tonya gets her rotations in very quickly. She's already done with two revolutions at the peak, giving her plenty of time on the way down to unwrap her legs. Yuna's delayed technique is just fine, though, since she manages to rotate fully and land with a flowing edge--good enough for a second triple at the end of it!
Such a sad thing what became of Tonya. Wasted talent...
Wasted indeed. It is especially evident when someone starts a splendid thread like this, comparing the best lutzes ever. If Tonya had allowed nature to take its course in the 1994 Olympics but had not beaten Nancy, she would still have gone down in history as one of the finest skaters of all, much as Midori has done despite winning the silver behind Yamaguchi. Now, we bring her up at times like these, but always with a bitter undertone to our commentary.
Yes, but the addition of the bitter undertone in one's commentary is wholly voluntary, Olympia! Harding's choices have not compelled anyone to follow what praise they might give her skating abilities with a lament for "what became of her," especially not twenty years later.
I agree, though, that this is a splendid thread!
Yes, but the addition of the bitter undertone in one's commentary is wholly voluntary, Olympia! Harding's choices have not compelled anyone to follow what praise they might give her skating abilities with a lament for "what became of her," especially not twenty years later.
I agree, though, that this is a splendid thread!
I certainly wasn't "bitter" about her situation, if that's what you're implying. I was merely observing how low she's fallen from the heights she achieved on ice. It's impossible to disassociate Tonya from The Whack, particularly when considering her talent in a thread such as this. Her immense talent makes the missed opportunity all the more evident.
Pepe, I chose the word bitter because I was about to use the word bittersweet, and there is no sweet component to how her career ended up. I am not bitter, but the circumstances certainly are. It's difficult to give Harding's skills unalloyed praise without thinking of that other matter--or at least I can't manage that level of neutrality.
Here's an honest question, though: what exactly make a Flutz? Perhaps we have a different understanding of it. Even tech panels don't seem to agree on definitions regarding edges and rotations. Some people, both technical specialists and mere figure skating fans, might say Yuna Lips. What makes a Lip? The above is an honest observation, not an attempt to smear Ito. But you can go ahead and call it a Yuna fan conspiracy if you wish.
Girls with good Lutz.
1- Yuna Kim - Do not need to explain why;
2- Agnes Zawadzki - Great, I consider her lutz even better than Yuna's, because she can do difficult transitions before(steps, ina bauer). She also makes the jump look very easy, rotates very fast in the air, very tight position;
3- Elene Gedevanishvili - Great height, ice coverage, speed and flow. She also can put a fully rotated 3T after;
4- Valentina Marchei - Nice flow, height, clear outside edge;
5- Liza Tukt - Again, great execution, nice speed, flow;
6- Gracie Gold- Nice air position, can perform the jump with both arms above the head;
7- Miki Ando - Miki's strongest jump, looks easy. Her 3Lz+2Lo is very well executed.
Is that just a random list or in order. Since if it is in order there is no way Tuktamysheva has a better lutz than Gold.
I always thought Liz Manley had a great triple lutz, although she does have a long telegraphed entry:
http://youtu.be/hV179v0zjkM
And I also like Josee Chouinard's:
http://youtu.be/Fbe97GLGAmk
They are awesome vaulters!