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Thread: Spectacular ladies triple Lutz

  1. #31
    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post

    Looking at the video, I'd say Tonya has a better landing position and edge. Yuna's free leg is still completely wrapped when she lands, whereas Tonya has already started opening up. Not to take anything away from Yuna, because she does have one of the best lutz's ever, but to me no one had better run out on the jump than Tonya because she fully rotated the jump in the air AND begun her landing position before hitting the ice.
    Much agreed! Yuna has a beautiful lutz, her technique is textbook, graceful takeoff. Tonya's is a monster though, great height, judging by the video though she rotates faster than Yuna imo. Beautifully done by both!

  2. #32
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Looking at the video, I'd say Tonya has a better landing position and edge. Yuna's free leg is still completely wrapped when she lands, whereas Tonya has already started opening up. Not to take anything away from Yuna, because she does have one of the best lutz's ever, but to me no one had better run out on the jump than Tonya because she fully rotated the jump in the air AND begun her landing position before hitting the ice.
    Indeed. Tonya gets her rotations in very quickly. She's already done with two revolutions at the peak, giving her plenty of time on the way down to unwrap her legs. Yuna's delayed technique is just fine, though, since she manages to rotate fully and land with a flowing edge--good enough for a second triple at the end of it!

    Such a sad thing what became of Tonya. Wasted talent...

  3. #33
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    Nancy Kerrigan also had a smooth, technically pleasing triple lutz. It's at about 4:10 in this video:
    http://youtu.be/WTv3CnSHSAA

  4. #34
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    What is wrong with telegraphing? I happen to like those lutzes the most

    Of the top tier skaters (i.e. world medalists)

    1. Tonya = Midori. I just love their explosive lutzes.
    2. Yuna = Carolina. Carolina has better flow out, Yuna has better transitions in. Both lutzes are big, and cover a large distance. Both regularly get +2 and +3 for a reason.
    3. Miki = Shizuka, -1 GOE below Yuna and Carolina. These two are next in line for best lutz. I prefer Shiz's lutz to Miki's, but Miki's lutz is textbook, there is nothing wrong with it, and she does it so well, it's like any old double jump. Shizuka is more inconsistent, but her flow out of her lutz is one of the best.


    The others like Baiul, Chen, their lutzes were nice, but Baiul always double footed, and no flow out, Chen underrotated her lutzes a lot. I think theirs are just passable. They aren't very remarkable to me. Most of the time, I would give 0 or -1 to their lutzes.

    Group 1 would get +3
    Group 2 would get +2 and +3
    Group 3 would get +2
    Not sure I'd give Ito a +3. It's very high, explosive and fully rotated, but she does have a mild Flutz (see this slow-mo http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...vUjCrlgY&t=333 with Dick Button complimenting the height) and she does have that leg wrap.

  5. #35
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    Yes, Midori is a well known flutzer.

  6. #36
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    All Yuna's fans perpetuated this theory that Midori is a flutzer, and a well known at it.
    One time, one of them even said Carolina occasionally flutzes.

    And then they bring out slow mo to slow flutzing and underrotation. So hopeless.

  7. #37
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    All Yuna's fans perpetuated this theory that Midori is a flutzer, and a well known at it.
    One time, one of them even said Carolina occasionally flutzes.

    And then they bring out slow mo to slow flutzing and underrotation. So hopeless.
    If you insist FlattFan...yes, Midori's Flutz is indeed a Yunabot conspiracy. Pure, utter lunacy. And that video operator who paused during her outside edge take-off was a Yunabot even before Yuna was born. Happy now?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    All Yuna's fans perpetuated this theory that Midori is a flutzer, and a well known at it.
    One time, one of them even said Carolina occasionally flutzes.

    And then they bring out slow mo to slow flutzing and underrotation. So hopeless.
    If I remember, my first encounter of the Ito-flutz comment was from obvious non-Yuna fans, and in more than just one community; Carolina as well, whether it be agreeable or not.

    Come on. I love Ito, but you even mentioned she was one of the most artistic skaters ever by saying that her artistry was BETTER THAN ANY CURRENT GIRL out there on ice, and that comparing Gold to her is offensive to Ito! That's pushing a lot even for Ito fans, and you're not even primarily her hardcore fan :(

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    Yes, Midori is a well known flutzer.
    She is?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Not sure I'd give Ito a +3. It's very high, explosive and fully rotated, but she does have a mild Flutz (see this slow-mo http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...vUjCrlgY&t=333 with Dick Button complimenting the height) and she does have that leg wrap.
    Is this sarcastic? There is no flutz at all.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Indeed. Tonya gets her rotations in very quickly. She's already done with two revolutions at the peak, giving her plenty of time on the way down to unwrap her legs. Yuna's delayed technique is just fine, though, since she manages to rotate fully and land with a flowing edge--good enough for a second triple at the end of it!

    Such a sad thing what became of Tonya. Wasted talent...
    Wasted indeed. It is especially evident when someone starts a splendid thread like this, comparing the best lutzes ever. If Tonya had allowed nature to take its course in the 1994 Olympics but had not beaten Nancy, she would still have gone down in history as one of the finest skaters of all, much as Midori has done despite winning the silver behind Yamaguchi. Now, we bring her up at times like these, but always with a bitter undertone to our commentary.

  12. #42
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    If I had to pick a favorite particular triple lutz moment, it would be Michelle's final lutz at the end of her 2004 Nationals LP. Yes, sometimes it was a flutz and sometimes it wasn't, but what a solid, totally in command move! I was there in the audience that night and it was magical! She held the edge beautifully and then launched right into that inspired, electrifying footwork sequence that blew the roof off the place. It comes at about 4:00 in this clip:
    http://youtu.be/QWQSoIEAxns

  13. #43
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Is this sarcastic? There is no flutz at all.
    Ito enters from a very deep outside edge but on the moment of toe-pick, her skating leg appears to veer into a non-outside edge (where the video pauses). For Kim and Harding, their skating leg is on an outside right through the point their feet leave the ice. If that is not a Flutz, then it's not a Flutz. I'm not going to belabor this point. It's nothing egregious or obvious. I never noticed except in slow-mo.

    Here's an honest question, though: what exactly make a Flutz? Perhaps we have a different understanding of it. Even tech panels don't seem to agree on definitions regarding edges and rotations. Some people, both technical specialists and mere figure skating fans, might say Yuna Lips. What makes a Lip? The above is an honest observation, not an attempt to smear Ito. But you can go ahead and call it a Yunabot conspiracy if you wish.

  14. #44
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    To get off this ridiculous Midori was a Flutzer, no she wasn't argument, how about the first lady who landed a 3Lz - Denise Bielman on the list

  15. #45
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    Good thought! I didn't realize that Biellmann was the first, but it shouldn't surprise me. That woman was a fabulous jumper, and we don't mention her nearly enough in our "Greatest Hits" threads. Like Shizuka and Kristi Y., she maintained her skills well into her decades-long pro career. And of course there were the spins.

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