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Thread: Spectacular ladies triple Lutz

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Ito enters from a very deep outside edge but on the moment of toe-pick, her skating leg appears to veer into a non-outside edge (where the video pauses). For Kim and Harding, their skating leg is on an outside right through the point their feet leave the ice. If that is not a Flutz, then it's not a Flutz. I'm not going to belabor this point. It's nothing egregious or obvious. I never noticed except in slow-mo.

    Here's an honest question, though: what exactly make a Flutz? Perhaps we have a different understanding of it. Even tech panels don't seem to agree on definitions regarding edges and rotations. Some people, both technical specialists and mere figure skating fans, might say Yuna Lips. What makes a Lip? The above is an honest observation, not an attempt to smear Ito. But you can go ahead and call it a Yunabot conspiracy if you wish.
    I don't think you're trying to smear Ito it just doesn't look like a flutz in that video. Her deep edge in the entry makes it almost impossible to flutz but the edge does flatten out.

    As far as Yuna, I don't think the lip is a big problem for her and she gets that edge call very infrequently.

  2. #47
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    When I see either Midori or YuNa, I can't imagine stopping the tape to look at what their blade is doing in the last millisecond of a jump. Isn't it enough to know that they defy gravity in a way not given to ordinary mortals and land like feathers? Maybe this makes me a bad fan, but I'm generally too mesmerized to let it bother me.

  3. #48
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    Well all I'm going to say is that I'll take Midori's "flutz" over anyone's lutz.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebevia View Post
    If I remember, my first encounter of the Ito-flutz comment was from obvious non-Yuna fans, and in more than just one community; Carolina as well, whether it be agreeable or not.

    Come on. I love Ito, but you even mentioned she was one of the most artistic skaters ever by saying that her artistry was BETTER THAN ANY CURRENT GIRL out there on ice, and that comparing Gold to her is offensive to Ito! That's pushing a lot even for Ito fans, and you're not even primarily her hardcore fan :(
    Let me tell you this, Midori made me want to stand up and cheer.
    Gold doesn't come close. She was clean at Nat and I wasn't standing. I just don't feel and buy what she is selling.

    What is artistry? Is it performance? Midori should get 10 for PE.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallize View Post
    Well all I'm going to say is that I'll take Midori's "flutz" over anyone's lutz.

    And all I am going to add is that I'll take Midori's out-of-this-world-3A over anyone's 3A including male skaters!

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post

    And all I am going to add is that I'll take Midori's out-of-this-world-3A over anyone's 3A including male skaters!
    Remember that great video where Kurt and Midori were practicing and both took off at about the same moment, and Midori got the same height to her jump as Kurt did? Yeah, I'll take her flutz over anyone else's lutz, and over almost anyone else's Olympic gold medal besides.

  7. #52
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    When I see either Midori or YuNa, I can't imagine stopping the tape to look at what their blade is doing in the last millisecond of a jump. Isn't it enough to know that they defy gravity in a way not given to ordinary mortals and land like feathers? Maybe this makes me a bad fan, but I'm generally too mesmerized to let it bother me.
    It's nitpicking for sure, especially given all the other great qualities.

    Nevertheless, since we're on the topic of lutzes it's OK to discuss the technical definitions of a Lutz vs a Flutz. The only problem is that whenever anyone's favorite is mentioned accusations fly and conspiracy theories form.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Let me tell you this, Midori made me want to stand up and cheer.
    Gold doesn't come close. She was clean at Nat and I wasn't standing. I just don't feel and buy what she is selling.

    What is artistry? Is it performance? Midori should get 10 for PE.
    That is the thing. I don't care if Ito flutzed or not, because she's that great; I was ecstatic at her best performances, and so were most people. A different view is acceptable, I respect that, and would actually be delighted to hear your love...if you stayed in your context.

    The reason I am pointing your "Yuna-fan" conspiracy is the following; you are using a very unusual Ito-uber (which you are not) opinion, which I don't mind, to suddenly criticize a non-existing Yuna-uber attitude - which isn't even true. Do argue if you agree on her flutzs, but please mind the facts.

    ==

    BTW, because this keeps coming up, I must say one thing: KSU didn't lobby or bribe the ISU for Yuna (or any Korean skaters), but quite the opposite. I don't really call JSA and Japanese Olympics/sports committees evil for working towards their athletes' benefits over others, because that's what they're supposed to do. I just wish Korean associates were even remotely close to other countries, because they tend to be ENEMIES of their athletes; even Yuna too. Did you know that one Korean skater almost didn't make it to an international competition because the KSA was MAKING UP FALSE EXCUSES to not spend 10 minutes of one phonecall and one faxing, when she was on top of the waitlist and one skater resigned? I felt sorry for Korean skaters, because this apparently happened A LOT. I would've been very happy if the KSU lobbying was true, but sadly not.

  9. #54
    Adiós Melon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebevia View Post
    ==

    BTW, because this keeps coming up, I must say one thing: KSU didn't lobby or bribe the ISU for Yuna (or any Korean skaters), but quite the opposite. I don't really call JSA and Japanese Olympics/sports committees evil for working towards their athletes' benefits over others, because that's what they're supposed to do. I just wish Korean associates were even remotely close to other countries, because they tend to be ENEMIES of their athletes; even Yuna too. Did you know that one Korean skater almost didn't make it to an international competition because the KSA was MAKING UP FALSE EXCUSES to not spend 10 minutes of one phonecall and one faxing, when she was on top of the waitlist and one skater resigned? I felt sorry for Korean skaters, because this apparently happened A LOT. I would've been very happy if the KSU lobbying was true, but sadly not.
    Adding on to this, South Korea still doesn't have an official(standard and safe) ice rink for figure skaters to train in.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Let me tell you this, Midori made me want to stand up and cheer.
    Gold doesn't come close. She was clean at Nat and I wasn't standing. I just don't feel and buy what she is selling.

    What is artistry? Is it performance? Midori should get 10 for PE.
    I know what you mean, Flattfan. For years I looked at Ito in awe. Then when Yukari Nakano came along and had such a pronounced leg wrap, a discussion ensued that mentioned that Midori (coached by the same person, I believe) also had a bit of a leg wrap on some jumps, though not as extreme as Nakano's. I looked back, and lo and behold, there was a leg wrap. Not only had I never noticed it before, but knowing about it now has not changed my feeling about Midori's amazing skating, and it never will.

    In Ito's defense, she never looked as if she were going to trip herself in midair, which was what I always expected to happen with Nakano. But I bring up the point just to underline the idea that Ito's strengths so far outshone her small flaws that the latter are of no consequence to me.

    As far as comparing her to YuNa, I can't. Both are in the stratosphere, and there are precious few skaters who make it into that realm. They may in fact be the top two. No further evaluation necessary for me. Anyone who wants to differ, feel free! Whatever makes you enjoy skating more is the way to approach it.

  11. #56
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    More Lutz jumps...

    I always thought Liz Manley had a great triple lutz, although she does have a long telegraphed entry:

    http://youtu.be/hV179v0zjkM

    And I also like Josee Chouinard's:

    http://youtu.be/Fbe97GLGAmk

    They are awesome vaulters!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Remember that great video where Kurt and Midori were practicing and both took off at about the same moment, and Midori got the same height to her jump as Kurt did?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CBCyz1yKT0

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Remember that great video where Kurt and Midori were practicing and both took off at about the same moment, and Midori got the same height to her jump as Kurt did? Yeah, I'll take her flutz over anyone else's lutz, and over almost anyone else's Olympic gold medal besides.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CBCyz1yKT0
    Which Yukari Nakano and Redor Andreev duplicated 19 years later.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTPXS39XVQ&t=0m16s

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    Thanks, Deedee! I know she didn't land it, but look at the height she got. Almost straight vertical lift. And so great to watch Kurt in his early prime.

    The Nakano/Andreev paired triples are fun to watch too, Aftertherain. Thanks for linking to them. I do have to say, though, in terms of sheer defiance of gravity, I'd rank Kurt/Midori ahead of Yukari/Fedor. But both duos are very impressive in these videos. I'm sorry Andreev didn't manage to get much mileage on an international career.

  15. #60
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    YEBIN MOK.

    That's all I'll say.

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