Sasha Cohen on Gay Rights in Russia and the Olympics
- Thread starter CanadianSkaterGuy
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- Jun 27, 2003
Um, we have hollywood - they're always looking for a way to tear down the country in support of their government...
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- Jan 25, 2013
It's because they are seeking attention to their cause or their actions. That's why they pick a prolific event to do so. As far as Putin's laws, there would still be widespread protest -- it's not BECAUSE of the Olympics that people are protesting these laws (notice how people weren't suggesting protesting the Olympics before these laws, even though Russia had the bid for years prior to the laws being enacted)... it's because these laws were implemented right before the international community is supposed to be welcomed by Russia, so obviously the issue would receive greater attention than if the Olympics were elsewhere.
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- Aug 18, 2010
Everyone is welcomed in Russia. Like every country, the guests have to follow the host country's laws. It's that simple.
It's non-issue unless you so want to influence Russian children but lost the access to them.
Look at the photo in this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/gay-activists-amsterdam-protest-russian-policy-211942557.html
Amsterdam legalizes prostitutions and drugs. The Russian people must be so thankful that they have already had such law in place.
It's non-issue unless you so want to influence Russian children but lost the access to them.
Look at the photo in this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/gay-activists-amsterdam-protest-russian-policy-211942557.html
Amsterdam legalizes prostitutions and drugs. The Russian people must be so thankful that they have already had such law in place.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
But what if the host country's laws are discriminatory? Here's the thing: if you go to Amsterdam where prostitution and drugs are legal, the country isn't saying you must find a hooker or smoke up when you get off the plane, otherwise you're not allowed to stay -- choosing to do those things is purely your choice. In Russian, where displays of homosexuality are now illegal, the country is saying that something that is not your choice (i.e. your sexuality), is prohibited.
This is also not about foreigners respecting the laws of countries they visit... it's primarily about Russian LGBT citizens being discriminated against.
This is also not about foreigners respecting the laws of countries they visit... it's primarily about Russian LGBT citizens being discriminated against.
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- Aug 18, 2010
The Russians did not say "displays of homosexuality are now illegal". They said it's not allowed in front of children. The Russians don't want a living environment for their children like in Amsterdam, and neither do I. I think this Russian law is a pretty good one for protecting their children.
This is still up to debate, buddy!
This is still up to debate, buddy!
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- Jan 25, 2013
Not allowed in front of children?! There are and there could be children almost everywhere. It's saying "you can be gay.. just not in most public spaces, that's all". Imagine a straight person being told they can't kiss/hold hands anywhere that there could be children.
A law that says "Hey, we're not discriminating... you're allowed to be gay, just not in front of children" is a stupid as a country that only allows marriage between a man and a woman proclaiming: "Hey, we're not discriminating... even if you're a gay man, you're still a man so you're still able to marry a woman". Gee, thanks.
As for "still up to debate"... I don't choose to be gay.... do you make the "choice" to be straight, Bluebonnet?
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- Aug 18, 2010
Such kind of protest like the one in Amsterdam will probably trigger many more countries to think whether or not they themselves should have a law to prevent it.
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- Jan 25, 2013
What was wrong with the protest in Amsterdam? Was it violent? Were people hurt?
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- Aug 18, 2010
Sure, I have no problem with that.
A law that says "Hey, we're not discriminating... you're allowed to be gay, just not in front of children" is a stupid as a country that only allows marriage between a man and a woman proclaiming: "Hey, we're not discriminating... even if you're a gay man, you're still a man so you're still able to marry a woman". Gee, thanks.
Sorry to say that the fact is that, many people, obviously the majority of the Russian people and the majority of the people in most countries around the world, think that gay propaganda will effect children's behaviors.
I absolutely believe what you said about yourself. With no disrespect for you as a person, we've been through this already. I will say it's still up to debate.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I'd like to see your sources that: a) That the majority of people in most countries believe it b) That gay propaganda has been proven to affect children's behaviour?
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- Aug 18, 2010
I don't think I need to provide sources for the first one. There are over 200 countries in the world. Only a few countries in Europe, Australia, and North America have recognized gay rights like the one you are enjoying. If you like, I could find some studies for the second one when I have time.
Eta: I have searched for this topic. I have decided not to bring them to this forum for fearing of bringing more unpleasantness. Sorry.
No, but I thought by signing agreement to host Olympics, the country has promised to follow the Olympic Charter - I've learned it this time.
The Olympic Charter said that no political demonstrations in and outside of the Olympic sites. Well, IOC did not pick that on US though.- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
How inconvenient. I'm not asking you to point out each country for the first one... I'm asking you to find any poll, survey or report that says people in most other countries think gay propaganda affects children and makes them grow up to be gay. If you can't find one, then stop asserting that most countries think that way.
No, only a few countries recognize gay marriage. But most countries have gay rights. Maybe they don't allow gays to marry, but certainly the vast majority of countries (exceptions obviously being Russia, the Middle East and some African countries) will not imprison or fine gays for holding hands or kissing or waving a rainbow flag.
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- Aug 18, 2010
The truth hurts.
...The truth is they don't even talk about it. It is not even an issue on the table. They have human rights but there is absolutely no definition to say that gay right is a human right. Everyone share the same rights gays and straights with gay population at about 1 - 3% the maxium. And most of them are living quietly. There is no such thing branded as "gay rights" in most countries.:sarcasm:- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
The truth hurts.
Exactly... it is human rights... which should be applied to LGBT people, people with disabilities, people of certain races, or any other minority. Gays aren't asking for special treatment.. they're asking to be treated equally.
It is also a grossly incorrect statement to suggest that gays share the same rights as straight people. Especially in Russia, with these laws. I don't have the right to kiss my partner in Russia. I don't have the right to adopt children in Russia (or Russian-born children if I live in Canada). If I have a kid (adopted or biologically my own) in Russia, it can be taken away from me due to my sexual orientation. How is that the "same rights"?
The reason people are living quietly is because their government doesn't care if they hold their partner's hand or kiss their partner in public, nor does their government persecute them if they do. As for 1-3% maximum... firstly, that varies from country to country, and even if it was "only" 1-3% in Russia, that represents millions of Russians who this law affects.
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- Aug 18, 2010
You are free to think so. However, the reason gay right is not on the table for most countries is because the gay people there do not interfere with the lives of what vast majority people know for as long as human being exist. If gay people in any country started to have pride parades, protests, wave rainbow flags at important events of that country or at important public squares, kissing in the public for the purpose of having people see them kissing (not occasionally, but becoming a trend), then gay issue will become an issue on the table. Only by then, you'd see how other countries would react to it. For now, it seems that Russia is the country that has been bothered by this constant disturbing. In fact, the countries who are the most friendly to the gay people are the countries with vast majority people are white, except Russia. White population in the world is about 15%. I personally believe that gay rights is not a human rights issue, as we've already discussed before. Gay people have the human rights like everyone else, no more. And I am no more bigots than you are.:sarcasm:
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- Jan 25, 2013
It is really unfortunate that you are suggesting that gays are trying to interfere with the lives of the majority, when it's painfully obvious that it's the other way around. :disapp: These laws are saying gay people can't kiss their partner or hold hands in public or even saying they're happy to be gay without fear of persecution -- if that isn't interfering in the lives of gays, I don't know what is.
As an FYI, gays in most other countries do have pride parades or some peaceful event or demonstration... while the general public may not agree with them (or might even be violent towards them), the government does not throw them in jail or fine them for waving a flag or kissing their partner. That is the outrageousness of these Russian laws.
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- Jan 25, 2013
How inconvenient that you're deciding not to provide all of these sources which you've most definitely been able to find. :sarcasm: Thank you for saving us from the unpleasantness... and please do continue to make more unsubstantiated statements without sources to back them up.
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- Aug 18, 2010
I have found them, videos and articles. Stop pressing me and challenging me.
If you really want to know, go searching yourself!!!!!:sarcasm:Most other countries? You mean more than 100 countries in the world? Thanks for giving me that "info"...
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Ahem, my entire statement was that in most (as in more than 100) countries, gay people can wave pride flags, kiss their partner in public, or hold hands, without their government fining them or jailing them for doing so.
I have searched, and I haven't found any evidence that the vast majority of Americans think there is gay propaganda that will turn their kids gay. In fact, here's a poll from July that says the majority of Americans support same-sex marriage. http://www.gallup.com/poll/163730/back-law-legalize-gay-marriage-states.aspx
If you want other stats: http://www.people-press.org/2013/03...iage-changed-minds-and-changing-demographics/
The percentage of Americans who agree that same-sex couples can be as good parents as heterosexual couples: 64%
The percentage of Americans who think same-sex couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples: 66%
The percentage of Americans who think homosexuals should be accepted by society: 57%
http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm - this is a compilation of MULTIPLE polls that agree that most Americans are pro-same sex rights (should you want MORE sources that back it up).
So why the heck you would assert that the majority of Americans think that there's gay propaganda to turn their children gay, when many reputable sources have clearly shown that the majority of Americans support same-sex marriage rights and think gays should be accepted by society?!
I have found them, videos and articles. Stop pressing me and challenging me.
I have searched, and I haven't found any evidence that the vast majority of Americans think there is gay propaganda that will turn their kids gay. In fact, here's a poll from July that says the majority of Americans support same-sex marriage. http://www.gallup.com/poll/163730/back-law-legalize-gay-marriage-states.aspx
If you want other stats: http://www.people-press.org/2013/03...iage-changed-minds-and-changing-demographics/
The percentage of Americans who agree that same-sex couples can be as good parents as heterosexual couples: 64%
The percentage of Americans who think same-sex couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples: 66%
The percentage of Americans who think homosexuals should be accepted by society: 57%
http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm - this is a compilation of MULTIPLE polls that agree that most Americans are pro-same sex rights (should you want MORE sources that back it up).
So why the heck you would assert that the majority of Americans think that there's gay propaganda to turn their children gay, when many reputable sources have clearly shown that the majority of Americans support same-sex marriage rights and think gays should be accepted by society?!
