Sibling skaters - is the younger one more successful? | Golden Skate

Sibling skaters - is the younger one more successful?

cinnamon

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Looking at cases of Mao & Mai Asada, Michelle & Karen Kwan, Emi Watanabe and her elder sister, Stephane Lambiel and his elder sister,
is it true to say that statistically younger one is more successful in the skating world? If yes, I wonder why... ;)
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Well, I don't know about "statistically," but Gracie Gold is (barely) older than her twin sister Carly, and has so far seen much more success in skating.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Another counter-example:
Sarah Hughes is older than Emily Hughes. Although Emily was very successful, Sarah was even more successful.

And re the Golds, I agree with ForeverFish.
Side question:
How much of a head start did Gracie have over Carly? I remember reading something about Carly getting involved in skating because Gracie was having so much fun.
And I thought it was great that Gracie wrote something in her blog about their goal of Carly qualifying for 2014 nationals as a competitor. They're not assuming that she will attend only as Gracie's cheerleader/twin/best friend. Go, Carly!
 

cinnamon

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Another counter-example:
Sarah Hughes is older than Emily Hughes. Although Emily was very successful, Sarah was even more successful.

And re the Golds, I agree with ForeverFish.
Side question:
How much of a head start did Gracie have over Carly? I remember reading something about Carly getting involved in skating because Gracie was having so much fun.
And I thought it was great that Gracie wrote something in her blog about their goal of Carly qualifying for 2014 nationals as a competitor. They're not assuming that she will attend only as Gracie's cheerleader/twin/best friend. Go, Carly!
Very nice. Once Asada's dream was going to the Japanese Nationals together. :)
p.s. I was impressed by Carly's Rippon Lutz the other day.
 

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avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Feb 27, 2012
How about Alissa and Amber, who is older?

Like the Golds, the Czisnys are twins. So they would differ in age only by minutes. (I don't know which Czisny technically is moments older.)

p.s. I was impressed by Carly's Rippon Lutz the other day.

ETA:​
Has Carly also mastered the Rippon lutz? I was aware only of Gracie's.​
 

Kalina

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Yuzuru and his four-years-older sister Saya started skating together, and at that time she was the 'girl who wanted to skate' and he was the 'little brother tagging along and doing everything that his big sister did' :) Saya did some competitions, but she stopped skating before entering university because she wanted to focus on her studies.
Kanako's older sister also was a skater and did competitions, before withdrawing in 2011.
In these cases, obviously the youngest was the most successful of the two.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Discounting twins where older vs. younger isn't relevant, I can think of several examples of both famous skaters and local ones I know of where one sibling is more successful.

It does seem that if there is a disparity in results, the younger one prevails more often. I can think of several reasons why this might be true:

*Genetic talent favoring one sibling or the other should be random as to whether the younger or the older is more talented, so environmental factors should have more impact.

*Often both skaters start at the same time, which means the younger one starts at a younger age. If there's more of an age difference and the younger doesn't start until the older has already been skating for a few years and the younger wants to join the fun, the younger one still might be younger than the older one was when s/he started. Starting younger will usually correlate with greater success.

*If siblings are of opposite sexes, the boy is likely to have more success because there's less competition. Going back to the previous point, because skating is often perceived as a girl's sport, it's much more likely that a younger brother will start skating (at a younger age) because his older sister skates, and less likely that a younger sister will have an older brother who is already a skater before she gets interested.

(However, if opposite-sex siblings start at the same time and the boy is older, often they will end up as a dance or pair team. Even if the boy is not more talented, if the team needs to break up when they don't grow at a rate to make them compatible partners at higher levels, or because one of them is injured or loses interest, it will be easier for the boy to find a compatible partner elsewhere if he wants to continue.)

There are, of course, exceptions to all of the above.
 

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avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Discounting twins where older vs. younger isn't relevant ...

... environmental factors should have more impact.

The examples of the Golds and the Czisnys support your notion that environmental factors are of paramount importance. The difference in skating btwn each sister and her twin cannot be chalked up to age.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I wonder if some nourishing-type big sisters might take greater pleasure in supporting their little sister's dreams than in pursuing her own.

When Venus and Serena Williams competed against each other Venus always held back and let Serena win if she could. (Cf. the movie "A League of Their Own.")
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
These days when a height differential is more important for pairs because of the demanding lifts, I would imagine that after a time, a brother-sister pair might have trouble excelling because since they have similar genetic makeup, they could (not always of course) be closer in height than is necessary. I often think of Tiffany and Johnny Stiegler, who were charming as kids but didn't continue to advance at the same rate. Johnnie quit partly because of injuries, but is it possible that his injuries arose because the two were just too similar in body type? As Tiffany grew, Johnnie just wasn't tall enough to maneuver her. (Older sister Stephanie skated with John Zimmerman at that time, and they had an easier time of it.)

This is an interesting question! Of the siblings who weren't partners, the only ones who come to mind who achieved the same goals were Hayes and David Jenkins. Oh, and one tragic set of sibs: Laurence Owen (national singles champion) and Maribel Owen (national pairs champion), who both perished in the 1961 plane crash. Had they survived, I doubt Maribel would have continued to equal Laurence, because at that time American ladies were among the class of the field, whereas our pairs were not held in such high international regard.

Can anyone think of anyone else?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Michal Brezina has a little sister who skates, she won Czech nationals in 2012 but has only limited international experience and hasn't made it out of qualifying round at Europeans or Worlds.

Yasmin Siraj has an older sister Leila who did skate, maybe still does. I know she never qualified for Nationals but I'm not sure if she ever made it to Sectionals. I think she's 4 years older than Yasmin, and Yasmin started skating at 2 because of her sister. So the younger sibling doing better follows suit in this case.

Morgan and Mariah Bell. So far Mariah has been more successful and shows a lot more potential, but idk if she started skating at a much younger age than Morgan, I think they are 3 or 4 years apart in age.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Yuzuru and his four-years-older sister Saya started skating together, and at that time she was the 'girl who wanted to skate' and he was the 'little brother tagging along and doing everything that his big sister did' :) Saya did some competitions, but she stopped skating before entering university because she wanted to focus on her studies.
.

I believe Brian Joubert started skating "via" his sister, as well (I don't know their respective ages) - and I wonder how often that happens? That a boy begins figure skating because his sister is skating?
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
I have also seen this in many instances at lower levels. My younger sister is a more accomplished skater than I am.

This is a bit (or a lot, lol) far-fetched, but the eldest sibling seems to be the more conservative. The younger ones seems to be more carefree/extroverts/"wild"; as in, less afraid of jumping. Younger children do have less fear, so learning new jumps comes easier and fear doesn't present as much of an obstacle.

The younger one may also get opportunities the older one didn't get. For example, they may start competiting at a younger age, because they begin competing at the same time as the older subling, even if it's a different level. They may get private coaching earlier etc. Parents learn from the first child and can apply those lessons to their second child. Older children pave the way for the younger ones.

And as for Sarah & Emily Hughes, Sarah may be the elder of her and Emily, but she is not the eldest child. I believe Sarah's older siblings skated as well, although I have no idea how far they got.
 

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avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I wonder if some nourishing-type big sisters might take greater pleasure in supporting their little sister's dreams than in pursuing her own.

When Venus and Serena Williams competed against each other Venus always held back and let Serena win if she could. (Cf. the movie "A League of Their Own.")

Luckily, even with her nurturing of her younger sister, Venus has had a very impressive career of her own.
I haven't kept up with the tweets from either Williams recently, but their frequent expressions of mutual affection -- how much they miss each other when apart, etc. -- are really sweet.

Just a thought: One of the Orioles teammates of Cal Ripken, Jr., was his younger and less successful brother Billy. But again, I don't want to diminish the achievement of playing MLB -- an accomplishment in itself.

... because skating is often perceived as a girl's sport ...

Am curious about this comment (not because I disagree with it). Why is skating perceived as more of a sport for girls? Is the perception widespread only in the U.S.? In most or all countries worldwide? :think:

A few days ago was looking at photos of a meet-and-greet featuring five elite skaters (two female and three male) at a U.S. event, and it is true that almost all -- if not all -- of the kids lined up to take advantage of the opportunity were girls.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I believe Brian Joubert started skating "via" his sister, as well (I don't know their respective ages) - and I wonder how often that happens? That a boy begins figure skating because his sister is skating?

Jason Brown started skating because his older sister did. She never continued...

Am curious about this comment (not because I disagree with it). Why is skating perceived as more of a sport for girls? Is the perception widespread only in the U.S.? In most or all countries worldwide? :think:

It seems to be a very Western train of thought and what it boils down to is the stereotype that an artistic man is a gay man (thus, a girly man). Girls are supposed to be artistic and pretty and elegant. Boys are supposed to be strong and muscular and athletic. You know, sexism at its finest. Men are not supposed to be elegant and artistic according to society.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Country
Australia
Speaking of siblings, a possible exception to the rule is the four Dodds brothers of Australia...they're all very good. Jordan is maybe the best known but he's the third brother, not the youngest.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Jason Brown started skating because his older sister did. She never continued...



It seems to be a very Western train of thought and what it boils down to is the stereotype that an artistic man is a gay man (thus, a girly man). Girls are supposed to be artistic and pretty and elegant. Boys are supposed to be strong and muscular and athletic. You know, sexism at its finest. Men are not supposed to be elegant and artistic according to society.

This is something I so admire about the Russians. They always had the view that dancing is a powerful, manly art as well as one for ladies. I think a large part of this stems from their pride in their ballet tradition, both in Moscow with the Bolshoi and in St. Petersburg with the Kirov, going back a century or more. But it's also due to their vibrant folk tradition, with troupes that tour the country and the world. (I was once lucky enough to see the Moiseyev Dance Company, and it's splendid.) Other Eastern European countries have the folk tradition, but they're not such a presence in skating right now.
 
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