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Thread: Lysacek's road to Sochi starts to get serious

  1. #136
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    [QUOTE=karne;760851]Why should we not want skating to go in the direction of Max Aaron? He's energetic, fast, throws himself into the programs with every effort, and best of all, he's fun to watch, and always looks like he's enjoying himself! I'd rather see that than someone who looks like they're being tortured to death. Sure, he doesn't have ice-dance level crossovers and he never will. But he knows his weaknesses and he works on them. He always attacks every program with everything he has. Nothing conservative or safe about his skating - he wants the prize and he wants to get there by doing 110% of what he's capable of, not mooching around taking out quads and flailing his arms. (Considering his background, Max's arms are pretty good, actually.)

    Why go for a second rate Elvis Stoijko when you have Fernandez, Hanyu, Chan and Takahashi who embody the complete skater. Max could improve or he could have the second year collapse which we have an inkling showing in Katlyn Osmond. What I hate or don't like is how there is so much talk by skaters about he quad and yet we all know less than 50percent are landed that are tried and so many with the quad don't even try it in competition. So much talk, so much babble about how they have spentimproving sins, jumps artistry but let's see it on the ice less talk and more action.



    ONLY FOUR QUADS? Oh my me, only four! However will he get by with only four?!

    The guy's a little bit on the nuts side.[/QUOTE


    Max does not have the chutzpah, the it quality, the attitude and character Elvis had. Elvis was Elvis - he was a personality on and off the ice. Max hasn't show the it factor Elvis has or an Urmanov or candelero. Besides why go in this direction when you have the all around complete skaters in Takahashi, Hanyu, Chan and Fernandez - don't second for second or third rate. He may not be a Jennifer Robinson and I am impressed with his quads under such pressure but his presence on the ice and style is lacking and comparatively to Elvis who wasknown as a jumper - max does not have the style that like it or not Elvis showed. So many, not Max at least, say they have quad but don't try it or land it in competition. So much talk. let's hope we wills the quads or the money where everyone's mouth is. I am not sure I agree with Chan's philosophy which has not improved technically (maybe he should at least improve his spins and interpretation??? I think Max does up the ante as to jumps but I do think his pcs are more than fair if not generous, too generous.

  2. #137
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    What I hate or don't like is how there is so much talk by skaters about he quad and yet we all know less than 50percent are landed that are tried and so many with the quad don't even try it in competition. So much talk, so much babble about how they have spentimproving sins, jumps artistry but let's see it on the ice less talk and more action.
    While I was sifting through the protocols, I noticed that a lot of the -GOE on the quad were less than -1.00--that does NOT mean they weren't landed. It (usually) means they weren't landed as well as they should have been. On the other hand, I also saw quite a few >+1.00 GOE on those jumps as well. Take Takahiko Kozuka, for example, his quad success rate is 15%, but on the few occasions that he can do the 4T well, he gets more than +1.00 GOE on it.

    In figure skating, skaters do practice these jumps over and over again, yes, but it's not unlikely that they'll "miss" a few in competition. After all, if a basketball player spends all of his/her time practicing, they still miss the basket from time to time. It's not only a "quad" thing, it's a mental game as well that happens in many sports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Max does not have the chutzpah, the it quality, the attitude and character Elvis had. Elvis was Elvis - he was a personality on and off the ice. Max hasn't show the it factor Elvis has or an Urmanov or candelero.
    You know what else Stokjo had that Max doesn't? More than a decade on the senior circuit. His career spanned from the late 1980s to the early 2000s. Max barely has two.

    He certainly has time and room to improve.

  3. #138
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Huh? Surya Bonaly won five European championships, a slew of Grand Prix events, and three world silver medals.

    Her style was not everyone's cup of tea, but isn't it a little premature to start pushing Aaron into that class?

  4. #139
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy
    Besides why go in this direction when you have the all around complete skaters in Takahashi, Hanyu, Chan and Fernandez - don't second for second or third rate.
    This 'all around skater'-thing is pretty debatable in itself. And why must skating go into any kind of direction? Max has some great qualities to him, he's enjoybale to watch, and that's fine. God knows I love Daisuke to pieces and I'd break down in happy hysteria if he'd win the OGM. But we have that one Takahashi, so why would Aaron need to skate like that? A competition is way more enjoyable if there are many different contenders with different skating styles with different strengths and weaknesses. I can put that one Dai performance on repeat, I don't need to watch 10 Dai's competing with each other.
    If Max never becomes 'the complete package', I couldn't care less. He has time, we will see if he can improve or not, but even if he doesn't, I'd still continue to enjoy watching him.

    And for that less talk, more action: has Max even been around long enough to fall short of his own proclamations? Yes, some skaters talk a lot and don't act according to it; and others don't. For now, I'm optimistic Max will stick to his word

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Huh? Surya Bonaly won five European championships, a slew of Grand Prix events, and three world silver medals.

    Her style was not everyone's cup of tea, but isn't it a little premature to start pushing Aaron into that class?
    Yes, it's hard to say if Max will ever manage to win five European championships
    (Sorry, of course you're right, but I couldn't refrain from that stupid joke )

  5. #140
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Huh? Surya Bonaly won five European championships, a slew of Grand Prix events, and three world silver medals.

    Her style was not everyone's cup of tea, but isn't it a little premature to start pushing Aaron into that class?
    OK, Mathman. I see what you did there.

    Fairly played.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Why go for a second rate Elvis Stoijko when you have Fernandez, Hanyu, Chan and Takahashi who embody the complete skater.
    Wow. Fernandez is a fun skater with good tech, I'll give you that. Hanyu can barely get through a long program without dying at the end of it. Chan spends half his time wiping the floor with his backside. And Takahashi? When was the last time Takahashi went clean, or consistent, for a prolonged period? No thank you. I'll take Max Aaron any day. I don't want to see a field of clones. I want to see everyone's individual style. Sure, Max isn't the most "artistic" skater, he doesn't have the best edges or the deepest knees or the most wonderful musicality. But you know who he skates like? Max Aaron!

    (And whether you like it or not, he IS the US National Champion. He DID finish 4th at Four Continents and he DID finish 7th at Worlds. In his first international championships. Whether you like it or not, he is a very good skater.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Max does not have the chutzpah, the it quality, the attitude and character Elvis had.
    This is total, utter RUBBISH. Max has plenty of chutzpah. He has great it quality, and his attitude is magnificent. Are you seriously going to tell a guy who came back from a broken back that he doesn't have chutzpah?

    I don't know what's got your panties in a twist over him, but making up lies about Max is not making your argument look any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    You know what else Stokjo had that Max doesn't? More than a decade on the senior circuit. His career spanned from the late 1980s to the early 2000s. Max barely has two.

    He certainly has time and room to improve.

  7. #142
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Huh? Surya Bonaly won five European championships, a slew of Grand Prix events, and three world silver medals.

    Her style was not everyone's cup of tea, but isn't it a little premature to start pushing Aaron into that class?
    Hah! Dick Button was the only American to ever win a European title and he is not afraid to let you know it.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Wow. Fernandez is a fun skater with good tech, I'll give you that. Hanyu can barely get through a long program without dying at the end of it. Chan spends half his time wiping the floor with his backside. And Takahashi? When was the last time Takahashi went clean, or consistent, for a prolonged period? No thank you. I'll take Max Aaron any day. I don't want to see a field of clones. I want to see everyone's individual style. Sure, Max isn't the most "artistic" skater, he doesn't have the best edges or the deepest knees or the most wonderful musicality. But you know who he skates like? Max Aaron!

    (And whether you like it or not, he IS the US National Champion. He DID finish 4th at Four Continents and he DID finish 7th at Worlds. In his first international championships. Whether you like it or not, he is a very good skater.)



    This is total, utter RUBBISH. Max has plenty of chutzpah. He has great it quality, and his attitude is magnificent. Are you seriously going to tell a guy who came back from a broken back that he doesn't have chutzpah?

    I don't know what's got your panties in a twist over him, but making up lies about Max is not making your argument look any better.



    time will tell folks. Max has only had one major year competing. he could win or bomb With more pressure on him we'll see what happens.

  9. #144
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    I'm with you Skater Boy but Max seems to be the way skating is going so I say whatever. I prefer the complete package that has a quad or 2 and a nice triple axel.

  10. #145
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    Goodness we're getting testy here! I agree that time and this Olympic season will help define who Max Aaron really is and if he can compete with the big boys.

    Hanyu, Javi and Daisuke have already proven they're at the top of elite men's skating. Whether or not Max is there is still to be determined.

  11. #146
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    i hope he's competing..

  12. #147
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    It's not like Javier was a great skater just a couple years ago. Until this year his best finish at Worlds was 9th. In fact it's only been the last two season's that Javier became a force back in the 2011 season he was pretty mediocre with his placements in international events. Max might not ever become a contender on the world stage but you never know.

  13. #148
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Some of you are glass half-empty kind of people when it comes to Max, huh? Yikes.

  14. #149
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Max does not have the chutzpah, the it quality, the attitude and character Elvis had. Elvis was Elvis - he was a personality on and off the ice.
    And Max is Max.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I'll take Max Aaron any day. I don't want to see a field of clones. I want to see everyone's individual style. Sure, Max isn't the most "artistic" skater, he doesn't have the best edges or the deepest knees or the most wonderful musicality. But you know who he skates like? Max Aaron!

    (And whether you like it or not, he IS the US National Champion. He DID finish 4th at Four Continents and he DID finish 7th at Worlds. In his first international championships. Whether you like it or not, he is a very good skater.)

    .... Max has plenty of chutzpah. He has great it quality, and his attitude is magnificent. Are you seriously going to tell a guy who came back from a broken back that he doesn't have chutzpah?
    Yes, the fearless Max absolutely personifies chutzpah, in the most positive sense of the word. (BTW, Happy New Year / L'Shana Tovah to the Aaron family and to all of our Jewish friends in the skating world. )

    Agree also that Max has a natural star quality, "it" factor, or whatever you want to call it. His personality shines off the ice, and felt magnetic during his exhibition program last season. I am curious to see whether his new SP and FS allow him to show more of it during competition this season.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    And Max is Max.



    Yes, the fearless Max absolutely personifies chutzpah, in the most positive sense of the word. (BTW, Happy New Year / L'Shana Tovah to the Aaron family and to all of our Jewish friends in the skating world. )

    Agree also that Max has a natural star quality, "it" factor, or whatever you want to call it. His personality shines off the ice, and felt magnetic during his exhibition program last season. I am curious to see whether his new SP and FS allow him to show more of it during competition this season.
    Well imho Max does not have the it factor but give him some time he looks more like an Elvis type but his personality on the ice is not so strong or organic but give him time. We'll see how h e fairs this year.

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