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Thread: Lysacek's road to Sochi starts to get serious

  1. #166
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    Oh my! Seriously, are any of you surprised?

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    SLC was a huge confirmation on that. On top of what I already knew. Max Aaron can't land on his feet...wait let me change that..he can't land on one foot.
    lololololololol so you completely discount every single competition Max has had over the last year except the one he did worst at. How delightfully hypocritical. At least Max COMPETED, which is not something Lysacek has been able to say for three years!

    In case you hadn't noticed, no-one was that great at SLC. Early-season rust happens. It happens to every skater. Just because Max missed a few jumps at SLC, doesn't mean he's going to miss them permanently. Just because Josh was struggling with the quad and sat down on a triple Axel in SLC, doesn't mean he doesn't have them.

    And just because Lysacek was "training well" before Champs Camp - which we have absolutely no proof of - it doesn't mean that he is guaranteed to win Nationals and go to the Olympics, and it sure doesn't mean he would have won SLC. Training well DOES NOT equal competing well. Heck, Max landed four quads in two minutes in the warmup for the FS at SLC. That warmup form didn't carry over. Sometimes it doesn't.

    I remind you that we've seen video of Plushenko - who had very, very serious back surgery in February - landing quads and triple Axels. What have we seen of Lysacek, even with his "minor setbacks"? Absolutely nothing.

  3. #168
    Footwork Queen IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    lololololololol so you completely discount every single competition Max has had over the last year except the one he did worst at. How delightfully hypocritical. At least Max COMPETED, which is not something Lysacek has been able to say for three years!

    In case you hadn't noticed, no-one was that great at SLC. Early-season rust happens. It happens to every skater. Just because Max missed a few jumps at SLC, doesn't mean he's going to miss them permanently. Just because Josh was struggling with the quad and sat down on a triple Axel in SLC, doesn't mean he doesn't have them.

    And just because Lysacek was "training well" before Champs Camp - which we have absolutely no proof of - it doesn't mean that he is guaranteed to win Nationals and go to the Olympics, and it sure doesn't mean he would have won SLC. Training well DOES NOT equal competing well. Heck, Max landed four quads in two minutes in the warmup for the FS at SLC. That warmup form didn't carry over. Sometimes it doesn't.

    I remind you that we've seen video of Plushenko - who had very, very serious back surgery in February - landing quads and triple Axels. What have we seen of Lysacek, even with his "minor setbacks"? Absolutely nothing.
    Okay, first of all. Max is only National Champion right now because everyone who was ahead of him after the short fell, etc. and he got scored high. I don't care if Max can jump circles around the moon, it's not everything and from what I've seen in multiple competitions, I'm not impressed. His "so-called" artistic and interpretive improvement is where? I didn't see it. I've seen kids in local novice competitions with more artistic merit and interpretation skills.
    I wasn't talking about the other guys directly that you decided you need to bring into this. Honestly, I liked Grant and Josh. I especially liked Josh's FS. He's a very talented skater and is more than jumps, quite interpretive.
    I work in the sport, and competed in multiple disciplines so you don't need to go talking down to me or trying to explain the sport to me, I know it quite well.
    You have made it perfectly clear in multiple posts that you aren't a Lysacek supporter. Good for you. That doesn't mean you have to come on here and make assumptions and tear people down.
    I'm sure there is video out there of Evan skating recently and landing very nice jumps, etc. People like you just have to look for it.
    I've seen it in person, therefore I can talk from an informed standpoint.
    That's all I have to say to you Karne.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    Okay, first of all. Max is only National Champion right now because everyone who was ahead of him after the short fell, etc. and he got scored high. I don't care if Max can jump circles around the moon, it's not everything and from what I've seen in multiple competitions, I'm not impressed. His "so-called" artistic and interpretive improvement is where? I didn't see it. I've seen kids in local novice competitions with more artistic merit and interpretation skills.
    Well, if you're going to say it like that ... those talented kids probably have better artistic merit and interpretation skills than Evan too.

    It's improvement, not a full-blown miracle.

    Sometimes, I wonder why we (in the States) can't be more like Canada. They always seem to be very supportive of their skaters no matter what mistakes those skaters in question make ...

  5. #170
    Footwork Queen IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Well, if you're going to say it like that ... those talented kids probably have better artistic merit and interpretation skills than Evan too.

    It's improvement, not a full-blown miracle.

    Sometimes, I wonder why we (in the States) can't be more like Canada. They always seem to be very supportive of their skaters no matter what mistakes those skaters in question make ...
    I'll agree with you on the latter part of the post, other than that I'm just sitting here laughing at how ridiculous the first statement was. Proves that you have NO idea what I am talking about. What is this Lysacek haters r us?
    I know you aren't much of a supporter either so to say that about him by calling out my statement, and then to say the US needs to be more supportive of skaters like Canada is. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

  6. #171
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    If this is true then Patrick, Dai, Hanyu, might as well just surrender. I knew Patrick should have been work on adding the sal or another axel at least now it is game over. Max Aaron is boy wonder and heir to the throne unless Javier has something say about it. too bad a couple years ago and the complete skater Dai or chan would have been favured but if Max is fairly consistent I am not sure Dai or Chan or Hanyu and the third Japanese man has a chance. Of course this could be talk because talk is Grant H has a quad, Johnny Weir has a quad, Evan has a quad, Miki Ando has a quad, Verner has a quad, Amodio has a quad, it is like not a big deal.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrgirl View Post
    And he's done. If he wasn't so injured I would be curious to see what he could have done. Olympic podium possibly.
    I am not a huge Evan fan admittedly; I think he was and is overrated. I am a cynic and I admit that. Deep down in my mind, which I have no idea what is the truth I find Evan a lot of people's comebacks disingeniuous, not real or not sincere. A lot has to do with eg, the dream maybe fame and money. Yes, I do believe Evan might surprise us and make it olympics or crash and burn. It "bothers me" to hear he is coming back and for whatever reason and whatever is the truth he is "injured" or can't compete. but he is a competitor so I can see him making a decent run to make it to sochi but I hope he doesn't make it and someone else is given the chance. Max Aaron looks like he has one spot and then it is up to rippon, farris, brown, dornbush, hockstein, evan, weir if he is coming back to do battle for the second spot.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    I'll agree with you on the latter part of the post, other than that I'm just sitting here laughing at how ridiculous the first statement was. Proves that you have NO idea what I am talking about. What is this Lysacek haters r us?
    I know you aren't much of a supporter either so to say that about him by calling out my statement, and then to say the US needs to be more supportive of skaters like Canada is. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?
    I was including myself in that statement. So if it's a little hypocritical of me, sure, why not? At least we're sitting here laughing at each other's statements.

    Neither Max nor Evan are "artistic" skaters, so there's really no point pretending like they are. Both have certainly tried to work on that aspect, but let's be real here.

    ETA -- Also, I think I can be a supporter of the skaters I like while still acknowledging their faults. Just because I'm a fan of them doesn't mean I automatically have to be blind to whatever they need to work on.

    And yes, I am not a "supporter," but nor am I a "hater." Just because I don't like him doesn't mean I think he should fall off the face of the earth. If he comes back, cool. If not, there are numerous other men hoping to make the Olympic team. I'm pretty much neutral---or am I not allowed to be? I'd like to see him come back if he can--maybe he'd be a great motivating force for the current crop. But I also hope he realizes that he is no longer as much of a spring chicken than he was four years ago and needs to listen to his body above all.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I was including myself in that statement. So if it's a little hypocritical of me, sure, why not? At least we're sitting here laughing at each other's statements.

    Neither Max nor Evan are "artistic" skaters, so there's really no point pretending like they are. Both have certainly tried to work on that aspect, but let's be real here.

    And yes, I am not a "supporter," but nor am I a "hater." Just because I don't like him doesn't mean I think he should fall off the face of the earth. If he comes back, cool. If not, there are numerous other men hoping to make the Olympic team. I'm pretty much neutral---or am I not allowed to be? I'd like to see him come back if he can--maybe he'd be a great motivating force for the current crop. But I also hope he realizes that he is no longer as much of a spring chicken than he was four years ago and needs to listen to his body above all.
    I never said what you can or can't be. Hey...what's it to me? I just think people need to stop jumping to conclusions over Evan (and I'm not centering you out on this by any means) and just let him do his thing.
    What I will say though is that no one knows their body as well as he does. He knows his limits, etc. He knows he's not 21 years old anymore, and so on.
    From an artistic viewpoint, Evan is a heck of a lot more interpretive and artistic than say Max or a handful of others. Is he the MOST artistic one there is or has ever been. BIG FAT NO. But to group Evan with Max in that aspect is just wrong on so many levels.

  10. #175
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    Yes, right now or rathe rint he past Evan has been more interpretiave than Max. Give Max time and we wills see.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    I never said what you can or can't be. Hey...what's it to me? I just think people need to stop jumping to conclusions over Evan (and I'm not centering you out on this by any means) and just let him do his thing.
    What I will say though is that no one knows their body as well as he does. He knows his limits, etc. He knows he's not 21 years old anymore, and so on.
    From an artistic viewpoint, Evan is a heck of a lot more interpretive and artistic than say Max or a handful of others. Is he the MOST artistic one there is or has ever been. BIG FAT NO. But to group Evan with Max in that aspect is just wrong on so many levels.
    Well, I wasn't going to group either of them with Daisuke or Stephane either. Just sayin'.

    In my opinion (and this is strictly my opinion), the fact that he still over-trains means that yes, he knows his limits---but is constantly trying to push them. It might have worked much better when he was younger, but it's a little sad to see him get injured for the third year in a row during the pre-season.

    Also, I wonder if it hurts to laugh with an abdominal tear ...

  12. #177
    Footwork Queen IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Ahhh..Stephane.
    Yes, I think that much of Evan's overtraining comes from the fact that even though he does know his body and limits that everyone (including his coach) put in his head from early on that he has to work twice as hard to achieve things that others attain naturally. He's said it himself (referring to the latter part of that last statement). So in a way..I think perhaps his OCD, etc has kicked in and he is in this mindset of what everyone has been planting in his head about training for years and years now and is just in super training mode. It's this robotic tendency that he can't turn off.
    I have had athletes with injuries similar to Evans, and one of my skating partner's tore a muscle in the same area years ago. It does hurt to do anything.
    To sneeze, to laugh, to cough, to lay on your back and to try to sleep in pretty much any position other than fetal with a pillow at your gut.
    It is sad to see such a wonderful and determined athlete hurt repetitively.

  13. #178
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    But that's what concerns me. The description of this injury sounds almost like he had not allowed the previous injury to heal properly before he went full throttle. In which case I would say that he does NOT know his limits and even if he does he is not respecting them. Why didn't they schedule a reduced training load to build up slowly?

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    But that's what concerns me. The description of this injury sounds almost like he had not allowed the previous injury to heal properly before he went full throttle. In which case I would say that he does NOT know his limits and even if he does he is not respecting them. Why didn't they schedule a reduced training load to build up slowly?
    Exactly - most other sports have trainers/coaches/rules/etc that protect the athlete from their own pride.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    ... That doesn't mean you have to come on here and make assumptions and tear people down.
    I'm sure there is video out there of Evan skating recently and landing very nice jumps, etc. People like you just have to look for it.
    I've seen it in person, therefore I can talk from an informed standpoint. ....
    IcyEdges, b/c you have personal knowledge of Lysacek's training and status, please give us your assessment as to whether he will be able to compete at Skate America.

    And please do not tear Max Aaron down.
    He has spoken very respectfully of EL as an idol, and more than once Max has said that competing on the same ice with EL would be a dream come true.
    Some of us would be happy for Max's dream to be realized. May the best skater -- the best skater on the days of the SP and FS, for that is the nature of all sport -- win.

    Pls also let Team Lysacek know that any new videos of EL's training will be welcomed with open arms. Thank you.

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