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Thread: Lysacek's road to Sochi starts to get serious

  1. #181
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    I'm sure, Evan wanted to come back seriously. So I wish him speedy recovery.

  2. #182
    Footwork Diva IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    IcyEdges, b/c you have personal knowledge of Lysacek's training and status, please give us your assessment as to whether he will be able to compete at Skate America.

    And please do not tear Max Aaron down.
    He has spoken very respectfully of EL as an idol, and more than once Max has said that competing on the same ice with EL would be a dream come true.
    Some of us would be happy for Max's dream to be realized. May the best skater -- the best skater on the days of the SP and FS, for that is the nature of all sport -- win.

    Pls also let Team Lysacek know that any new videos of EL's training will be welcomed with open arms. Thank you.
    I made an assessment of Max's skating. I'm sure he's heard worse from officials, etc. I never tore him down as a person and don't have a problem with him that way. I can't say that goes both ways here regarding other skaters.
    I do agree with letting the skating in competition speak for itself.
    Team Lysacek isn't stupid and no matter what is going on, be assured that said team will go the proper routes to get information out to the public when the public needs that info and no sooner or later.
    That's all I have to say on that matter.

  3. #183
    Footwork Diva IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Exactly - most other sports have trainers/coaches/rules/etc that protect the athlete from their own pride.
    He does, as do other skaters. It's not a pride issue. More like a routine issue.
    The same thing day in and day out will hurt just about anyone.

  4. #184
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    I made an assessment of Max's skating. I'm sure he's heard worse from officials, etc. I never tore him down as a person and don't have a problem with him that way. I can't say that goes both ways here regarding other skaters.
    Over the last two pages of this thread, I don't see that Lysacek has been criticized as a person either. Those criticizing him have been criticizing Lysacek the skater.

    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    I'm sure there is video out there of Evan skating recently and landing very nice jumps, etc. People like you just have to look for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    Team Lysacek isn't stupid and no matter what is going on, be assured that said team will go the proper routes to get information out to the public when the public needs that info and no sooner or later.
    That's all I have to say on that matter.
    Not expecting you to reply again, but I'm confused. Has Team Lysacek released any recent video or not?
    It's not that the public is in desperate "need" of video. Like it or not, it's that in the absence of readily available video, unfortunately it is human nature that some people -- not everyone, but some people -- will assume the worst. If Team Lysacek wanted to prevent any such assumptions (whether they are fair or not), releasing video would go a long way.

  5. #185
    Footwork Diva IcyEdges's Avatar
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    Not expecting you to reply again, but I'm confused. Has Team Lysacek released any recent video or not?
    It's not that the public is in desperate "need" of video. Like it or not, it's that in the absence of readily available video, unfortunately it is human nature that some people -- not everyone, but some people -- will assume the worst. If Team Lysacek wanted to prevent any such assumptions (whether they are fair or not), releasing video would go a long way.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, there has been attack and assumption of EL's personal character. If he says he's going to do something, you'd better bet he's going to do it. It's not exactly his fault or in his plans to have gotten hurt the last two fall seasons, nor have the USFS cause a dispute with him over trivial matters.
    When there are people saying that they don't believe the injury is real. That's just uncalled for. It's real.
    There IS video out there of him skating pre-injury. But it's for anyone that cares to find it to find it. And exactly what would anyone want video of at this point? He hasn't been allowed for at least a week to even be on the ice. So what do you(not you personally) want video of at this point? Him under doctors care? Him icing his injury? What?

  6. #186
    Custom Title SaraM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyEdges View Post
    Not expecting you to reply again, but I'm confused. Has Team Lysacek released any recent video or not?
    It's not that the public is in desperate "need" of video. Like it or not, it's that in the absence of readily available video, unfortunately it is human nature that some people -- not everyone, but some people -- will assume the worst. If Team Lysacek wanted to prevent any such assumptions (whether they are fair or not), releasing video would go a long way.
    Actually, there has been attack and assumption of EL's personal character. If he says he's going to do something, you'd better bet he's going to do it. It's not exactly his fault or in his plans to have gotten hurt the last two fall seasons, nor have the USFS cause a dispute with him over trivial matters.
    When there are people saying that they don't believe the injury is real. That's just uncalled for. It's real.
    There IS video out there of him skating pre-injury. But it's for anyone that cares to find it to find it. And exactly what would anyone want video of at this point? He hasn't been allowed for at least a week to even be on the ice. So what do you(not you personally) want video of at this point? Him under doctors care? Him icing his injury? What?
    [/QUOTE]


    okeeey this guys kinda crazy..

  7. #187
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    Personally, I usually don't care about the backstory leading to a skater choosing to skate or not. They'll either skate or they won't skate. Plenty of skaters skate with injuries, light or severe, and while they're sick, while they're jetlagged, while they have boot problems, etc. Frankly, if Evan doesn't skate, I wouldn't be surprised (and frankly, I wouldn't care, since he would be unlikely to affect the outcome of the Olympics, or even the US Nationals).

    Like Weir, the public isn't exactly itching for his return, and understandably. There's no point getting hyped about his return or fighting about his injury/non-injury status until we actually see him compete.

    And releasing a practice video with the best jumps carefully selected to suggest a skater's prime condition also isn't going to say much.

  8. #188
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    Yes, some people are overly critical of a skater just because they don't like the skater. It's also completely legitimate to discuss a skater's chances of a comeback. Saying "There's proof YOU just have to find it" to the naysayers just adds fuel to the fire - why is it hidden? Why can't it just be produced with a simple link?

    I was a fan of Lysacek after seeing him skate live in 2005 - I still enjoy his skating and wish him well... but I'm realistic in what I think he can accomplish. Evan's injury prone - whether by body type or over practicing. He has a documented history of it - Frank Carroll has been quoted many times over the years saying as much, and as Evan's coach he is an authority on the subject. No one is bashing him for his work ethic, but they are expressing concern that he is over training. He HAS overtrained and missed major competitions before. This is not something new that people are making up.

    Ultimately - he is running out of time. He has not competed in a very long time and all the training in the world and all the medals in the world does not guarantee that you will not be nervous and rusty in your first competition after a long hiatus. Do I believe that Evan could make a comeback - yes, if he'd really gotten serious and started this comeback 2 years ago or even a year ago, he'd be a serious threat IMO. But we've seen a lot of these "last minute" comebacks falter because the skater just "ran out of time." Evan should've booted his "management" the second they had issues with the USFSA, apologized for any hurt feelings his agents created, and skated at least at Nationals if he couldn't make Skate America. This is all Monday morning quarterbacking, but it is what it is.

    IF Evan is healthy and on the ice at nationals I'll be cheering him on as always, but I would prefer that he doesn't rush recovery and training and then come away the same way Sasha Cohen did 4 years ago.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    And releasing a practice video with the best jumps carefully selected to suggest a skater's prime condition also isn't going to say much.
    I agree, however Weir posted quite a few videos throughout his attempted comeback, and he actually got out there (briefly) last season before withdrawing due to injury - it seems like that's more than Evan has done. People can make excuses all they want about "oh, well he's injured and not on the ice right now" all they want, but that does little more than provide more evidence that he's just not ready, and that's not likely to change in the next month before Skate America. I fully expect him to withdraw, though I doubt it's going to happen until just before the event.

    I do wish him the best, but to be honest for the past 2 years I feel like all anyone has heard is a lot of talk, and seen very little action. To be honest I doubt he will make a return to competitive skating this season. His age and injuries are just not in his favor. It's not as if he's trying to recover from something minor at this point, but if he were, it might be a different scenario.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Yes, some people are overly critical of a skater just because they don't like the skater. It's also completely legitimate to discuss a skater's chances of a comeback. Saying "There's proof YOU just have to find it" to the naysayers just adds fuel to the fire - why is it hidden? Why can't it just be produced with a simple link?

    I was a fan of Lysacek after seeing him skate live in 2005 - I still enjoy his skating and wish him well... but I'm realistic in what I think he can accomplish. Evan's injury prone - whether by body type or over practicing. He has a documented history of it - Frank Carroll has been quoted many times over the years saying as much, and as Evan's coach he is an authority on the subject. No one is bashing him for his work ethic, but they are expressing concern that he is over training. He HAS overtrained and missed major competitions before. This is not something new that people are making up.

    Ultimately - he is running out of time. He has not competed in a very long time and all the training in the world and all the medals in the world does not guarantee that you will not be nervous and rusty in your first competition after a long hiatus. Do I believe that Evan could make a comeback - yes, if he'd really gotten serious and started this comeback 2 years ago or even a year ago, he'd be a serious threat IMO. But we've seen a lot of these "last minute" comebacks falter because the skater just "ran out of time." Evan should've booted his "management" the second they had issues with the USFSA, apologized for any hurt feelings his agents created, and skated at least at Nationals if he couldn't make Skate America. This is all Monday morning quarterbacking, but it is what it is.

    IF Evan is healthy and on the ice at nationals I'll be cheering him on as always, but I would prefer that he doesn't rush recovery and training and then come away the same way Sasha Cohen did 4 years ago.
    I agree with all your points, especially the one about trying to reconcile with the USFSA at that point. In retrospect, clearly a damaging mistake for Evan, because it kept him out of competitive skating too long for him to catch up.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Yes, some people are overly critical of a skater just because they don't like the skater. It's also completely legitimate to discuss a skater's chances of a comeback. Saying "There's proof YOU just have to find it" to the naysayers just adds fuel to the fire - why is it hidden? Why can't it just be produced with a simple link?

    I was a fan of Lysacek after seeing him skate live in 2005 - I still enjoy his skating and wish him well... but I'm realistic in what I think he can accomplish. Evan's injury prone - whether by body type or over practicing. He has a documented history of it - Frank Carroll has been quoted many times over the years saying as much, and as Evan's coach he is an authority on the subject. No one is bashing him for his work ethic, but they are expressing concern that he is over training. He HAS overtrained and missed major competitions before. This is not something new that people are making up.

    Ultimately - he is running out of time. He has not competed in a very long time and all the training in the world and all the medals in the world does not guarantee that you will not be nervous and rusty in your first competition after a long hiatus. Do I believe that Evan could make a comeback - yes, if he'd really gotten serious and started this comeback 2 years ago or even a year ago, he'd be a serious threat IMO. But we've seen a lot of these "last minute" comebacks falter because the skater just "ran out of time." Evan should've booted his "management" the second they had issues with the USFSA, apologized for any hurt feelings his agents created, and skated at least at Nationals if he couldn't make Skate America. This is all Monday morning quarterbacking, but it is what it is.

    IF Evan is healthy and on the ice at nationals I'll be cheering him on as always, but I would prefer that he doesn't rush recovery and training and then come away the same way Sasha Cohen did 4 years ago.
    Evan WAS serious about making his comeback last season. He did not compete because he got injured while training and had surgery. Even though Evan did not compete in 2011-12, he was training (except when he had down time with the MCL strain in September 2011) If Evan had competed in the 2011-12 season, and missed the 2012-13 season due to injury, he would still need to earn an international qualifying score this season to qualify for the Olympics.

  12. #192
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Do I believe that Evan could make a comeback - yes, if he'd really gotten serious and started this comeback 2 years ago or even a year ago, he'd be a serious threat IMO.
    Evan was advertised for Skate America two years ago, but he withdrew because of financial disagreements with the USFSA. He was advertised for Skate America last year, but he withdrew because of injury. He was advertised for Skate America this year, but again withdrew because of injury. The ball is in Evan's court.

    IF Evan is healthy and on the ice at nationals I'll be cheering him on as always, but I would prefer that he doesn't rush recovery and training and then come away the same way Sasha Cohen did 4 years ago.
    i agree with the cheering part, but IMHO Sasha has nothing to be ashamed of. She said she was coming back. She came back. Did pretty well at Nationals, finishing fourth.

  13. #193
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    i agree with the cheering part, but IMHO Sasha has nothing to be ashamed of. She said she was coming back. She came back. Did pretty well at Nationals, finishing fourth.
    I don't disagree - she should not be ashamed of what she accomplished in so little time. But my point is - Evan (and Sasha) wants on the Olympic team, debuting at Nationals is NOT the best way to accomplish that goal. It's not like he has always done well at Nationals - he's let the pressure get to him even in the best of circumstances. This is not the best of circumstances.

    IF he proves me wrong I'll be the happiest one out there. I'm not one to continue to get my hopes up, though.

  14. #194
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    He's not coming back. Case closed.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Evan was advertised for Skate America two years ago, but he withdrew because of financial disagreements with the USFSA. He was advertised for Skate America last year, but he withdrew because of injury. He was advertised for Skate America this year, but again withdrew because of injury. The ball is in Evan's court.
    I must correct you slightly there, Mathman - Evan has not officially withdrawn from SkAm this year yet.

    It would be NICE, however, if instead of leaving it to the last minute like last year, he withdrew early enough that his replacement can be fully prepared.

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