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Thread: Lysacek's road to Sochi starts to get serious

  1. #121
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Actually, Plushenko is in a separate category here. He can do a quadruple toe loop. This is just something that the guy can do.

    Everyone else attempts quads, and sometimes they get lucky, sometimes not.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Thanks aftertherain! I guess Aaron had popped one of his 4S this season, but it doesn't really matter. He still has an amazing consistency with this jump, not to forget that the quality is really good too! It's exciting to see how he will do with the 4T(?) next season and his 5 quads plan
    Thanks, Li'K. I confess that I had been wondering whether Aaron had in fact popped one quad. I see now it was in his FS at Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    But I'm a Plushy uber, and as such, intend to clutch those 100% to my bosom, and no one dare try to take it away from me! Or... or... the Yuna/Mao Wars will start to look like child's play! And I can't think of a worse threat than that... )
    In that case, for now I will cling to 100% for Aaron too.

    Li'K, I think I read somewhere more recently that Aaron was referring to [only ] four quads (1 + 3??) for next season?? (I too remember that earlier he had mentioned the possibility of 2 + 3.)

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Thanks aftertherain! I guess Aaron had popped one of his 4S this season, but it doesn't really matter. He still has an amazing consistency with this jump, not to forget that the quality is really good too! It's exciting to see how he will do with the 4T(?) next season and his 5 quads plan
    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Thanks, Li'K. I confess that I had been wondering whether Aaron had in fact popped one quad. I see now it was in his FS at Worlds.
    As I mentioned before, I didn't count solo 2T, 3T, 2S, or 3S as actual attempts. Only variations of 4T and 4S (like < or << or just +/-GOE).

    Otherwise, everyone's success rates would go down, down, down, down, down, like Jay Sean--and here is today's pop culture reference.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    As I mentioned before, I didn't count solo 2T, 3T, 2S, or 3S as actual attempts. Only variations of 4T and 4S (like < or << or just +/-GOE).

    Otherwise, everyone's success rates would go down, down, down, down, down, like Jay Sean--and here is today's pop culture reference.
    No worries, aftertherain. I did see that you clearly had said that from the beginning. Pls don't misunderstand -- was not criticizing your tally at all.
    Only wanted to acknowledge that 100% for Aaron did not truly equal absolute quad perfection ... but I am going to leave my avatar unchanged for now .

  5. #125
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411
    Li'K, I think I read somewhere more recently that Aaron was referring to [only ] four quads (1 + 3??) for next season?? (I too remember that earlier he had mentioned the possibility of 2 + 3.)
    Thanks for the news! Well, that's "sad", but it's still great even if he goes for 4 quads overall. He'll need another kind of quad for both, and that's what I'm excited for the most. It's a tough job to get a new jump down in competition, so "just" going for 4 quads is pretty smart. (He can still move up to 5 quads some time later )

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    No worries, aftertherain. I did see that you clearly had said that from the beginning. Pls don't misunderstand -- was not criticizing your tally at all.
    Only wanted to acknowledge that 100% for Aaron did not truly equal absolute quad perfection ... but I am going to leave my avatar unchanged for now .
    Yes, leave the avatar - it's great. And absolutely cling to those 100% - he earned them! - and beat off anyone who tries to take them away from you with a hockey stick...

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I didn't realize how man quad mistakes Chan and Takhashi had hmm. But Max Aaron really is not the direction we probably want skating to go. His skating looks rough, unrefined and he doesn't have the personality or passion of Candelero who also had often scratchy jumps like Aaron. A clean Evan could possibly beat the guy and certainly a clean Tak and Chan even without quds I would have ahead with their pcs. who knows atbout this year maybe his jumps and spins and overall skating has improved but I would almost say max should be marked like Jennifer Ronbinson or sury Bonaly -lots of triples but quality si lacking.
    Max Aaron may not be your cup of tea, and I understand that... different strokes and all that...

    But to compare his overall level of skating to Surya Bonaly is a bit over the top.

    To even put Jennifer Robinson in the Bonaly zone for PCS is unjustified.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I didn't realize how man quad mistakes Chan and Takhashi had hmm.
    I was surprised too. And sad to realize that Takahashi's quad has been less consistent these four years.

    Interesting, though, how more of the guys are gaining more consistency. In major competitions leading up to the 2010 games, Plushenko was the only one with a success rate greater than 50% (his was 100%). Now there are 5 other skaters hitting higher than 50%.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    But Max Aaron really is not the direction we probably want skating to go.
    Why should we not want skating to go in the direction of Max Aaron? He's energetic, fast, throws himself into the programs with every effort, and best of all, he's fun to watch, and always looks like he's enjoying himself! I'd rather see that than someone who looks like they're being tortured to death. Sure, he doesn't have ice-dance level crossovers and he never will. But he knows his weaknesses and he works on them. He always attacks every program with everything he has. Nothing conservative or safe about his skating - he wants the prize and he wants to get there by doing 110% of what he's capable of, not mooching around taking out quads and flailing his arms. (Considering his background, Max's arms are pretty good, actually.)

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Li'K, I think I read somewhere more recently that Aaron was referring to [only ] four quads (1 + 3??) for next season?? (I too remember that earlier he had mentioned the possibility of 2 + 3.)
    ONLY FOUR QUADS? Oh my me, only four! However will he get by with only four?!

    The guy's a little bit on the nuts side.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Why should we not want skating to go in the direction of Max Aaron? He's energetic, fast, throws himself into the programs with every effort, and best of all, he's fun to watch, and always looks like he's enjoying himself! I'd rather see that than someone who looks like they're being tortured to death. Sure, he doesn't have ice-dance level crossovers and he never will. But he knows his weaknesses and he works on them. He always attacks every program with everything he has. Nothing conservative or safe about his skating - he wants the prize and he wants to get there by doing 110% of what he's capable of, not mooching around taking out quads and flailing his arms. (Considering his background, Max's arms are pretty good, actually.)
    No. No. No.

    It's not true skating if the man isn't stroking his face, or looking longingly for some lost love, or melding anguish with the "Chicken Dance" like Alexei Urmanov.

    Max's style suits me just fine, because it suitshim just fine. I can appreciate the balletic poise of John Curry, and at the same time, appreciate Max's joyous balls-out approach.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Max Aaron may not be your cup of tea, and I understand that... different strokes and all that...

    But to compare his overall level of skating to Surya Bonaly is a bit over the top. To even put Jennifer Robinson in the Bonaly zone for PCS is unjustified.
    I agree about Bonaly, that was too harsh.... In my opinion his skating reminds me of Stojko, but Aaron has a bit better bodytype.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Li'K, I think I read somewhere more recently that Aaron was referring to [only ] four quads (1 + 3??) for next season?? (I too remember that earlier he had mentioned the possibility of 2 + 3.)
    CORRECTING myself (with apologies to Aaron and to all for my error):
    Finally found the source that was the basis for my comment above. In an article for IN (mostly about Lysacek), Lynn Rutherford made a brief mention of Aaron.
    Very sorry that I accidentally garbled what Rutherford wrote. Her exact words:
    In Sochi, it will be nearly impossible to land on the Olympic podium without a quad. At Champs Camp, U.S. champion Max Aaron said he planned three in his free skate and at least one in his short.
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/...at-champs-camp (Aug 23)

    So the door for five quads from Aaron this season remains open.
    And I have faith that we will see improvement in his artistry as well. It is one of his stated goals, and he is nothing if not tenacious.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    I agree about Bonaly, that was too harsh.... In my opinion his skating reminds me of Stojko, but Aaron has a bit better bodytype.
    Elvis had a persona and chutzpah; he had a strong style and personality; Max the guy with two first names doesn't. he just doesn't have the it factor ofr character that transends technical genius.

  14. #134
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    [QUOTE=karne;760851]Why should we not want skating to go in the direction of Max Aaron? He's energetic, fast, throws himself into the programs with every effort, and best of all, he's fun to watch, and always looks like he's enjoying himself! I'd rather see that than someone who looks like they're being tortured to death. Sure, he doesn't have ice-dance level crossovers and he never will. But he knows his weaknesses and he works on them. He always attacks every program with everything he has. Nothing conservative or safe about his skating - he wants the prize and he wants to get there by doing 110% of what he's capable of, not mooching around taking out quads and flailing his arms. (Considering his background, Max's arms are pretty good, actually.)

    Why go for a second rate Elvis Stoijko when you have Fernandez, Hanyu, Chan and Takahashi who embody the complete skater. Max could improve or he could have the second year collapse which we have an inkling showing in Katlyn Osmond. What I hate or don't like is how there is so much talk by skaters about he quad and yet we all know less than 50percent are landed that are tried and so many with the quad don't even try it in competition. So much talk, so much babble about how they have spentimproving sins, jumps artistry but let's see it on the ice less talk and more action.



    ONLY FOUR QUADS? Oh my me, only four! However will he get by with only four?!

    The guy's a little bit on the nuts side.[/QUOTE


    Max does not have the chutzpah, the it quality, the attitude and character Elvis had. Elvis was Elvis - he was a personality on and off the ice. Max hasn't show the it factor Elvis has or an Urmanov or candelero. Besides why go in this direction when you have the all around complete skaters in Takahashi, Hanyu, Chan and Fernandez - don't second for second or third rate. He may not be a Jennifer Robinson and I am impressed with his quads under such pressure but his presence on the ice and style is lacking and comparatively to Elvis who wasknown as a jumper - max does not have the style that like it or not Elvis showed. So many, not Max at least, say they have quad but don't try it or land it in competition. So much talk. let's hope we wills the quads or the money where everyone's mouth is. I am not sure I agree with Chan's philosophy which has not improved technically (maybe he should at least improve his spins and interpretation??? I think Max does up the ante as to jumps but I do think his pcs are more than fair if not generous, too generous.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    What I hate or don't like is how there is so much talk by skaters about he quad and yet we all know less than 50percent are landed that are tried and so many with the quad don't even try it in competition. So much talk, so much babble about how they have spentimproving sins, jumps artistry but let's see it on the ice less talk and more action.
    While I was sifting through the protocols, I noticed that a lot of the -GOE on the quad were less than -1.00--that does NOT mean they weren't landed. It (usually) means they weren't landed as well as they should have been. On the other hand, I also saw quite a few >+1.00 GOE on those jumps as well. Take Takahiko Kozuka, for example, his quad success rate is 15%, but on the few occasions that he can do the 4T well, he gets more than +1.00 GOE on it.

    In figure skating, skaters do practice these jumps over and over again, yes, but it's not unlikely that they'll "miss" a few in competition. After all, if a basketball player spends all of his/her time practicing, they still miss the basket from time to time. It's not only a "quad" thing, it's a mental game as well that happens in many sports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Max does not have the chutzpah, the it quality, the attitude and character Elvis had. Elvis was Elvis - he was a personality on and off the ice. Max hasn't show the it factor Elvis has or an Urmanov or candelero.
    You know what else Stokjo had that Max doesn't? More than a decade on the senior circuit. His career spanned from the late 1980s to the early 2000s. Max barely has two.

    He certainly has time and room to improve.

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