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Thread: 6.0 in scoring

  1. #1
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    6.0 in scoring

    I know there have been more than one 6.0 score when a skater has fallen or completely missed something in the skate.

    Typically, though, would you agree that it's been quite awhile, save for Cohen, since that has happened?

    I think in today's world, especially since the last Olympic Pairs Skate and al the hoopla afterwards and with the new scoring system, we're all hoping for honesty? Don't the skaters deserve that?

    Skating became ever more popular with the Nancy Kerrigan saga - and why not? It's like, what's going to happen next? Terrible.

    Is it possible that skating is losing it's popularity because of the cheating by the judges? Where's the joy in that?

    sh

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    Custom Title Jhar55's Avatar
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    I don't think skating has lost it's popularity with die hard skating fans. Yes the networks did over sautrate us after the Tanya / Nancy thing. IMO the only ones who lost instrest were those who only started to watch after that and couldn't care less about skating.

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    Procrastinating b/c of Worlds
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    Kwan in 1999 SA. She got a 6.0 in the LP from the Hungarian judge, despite a fall on the triple flip.

    TV

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    What is a 6.0

    Is a 6.0 really supposed to mean "perfect"? My understanding was that 6.0 meant that the skater who received it was ranked higher than a skater who received 5.9... that the judges were merely placing ordinals on each skater. One judge could give a 5.4, a 5.3 and a 5.2, thus placing these skaters in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Another judge could give a 6.0, 5.9, 5.8, achieving the same result. Is my understanding correct?

    If so, why would giving a 6.0 to a less than perfect performance be considered bad judging?

    Linny

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    Traditionally, up to Torville and Dean, 6.0s were rarely issued simply because it was understood that to earn 6.0 meant that it was technically perfect and could not be improved upon.

    With Torville and Dean, and subesqueently lots of other skaters, it seems that 6.0's are given with more frequency (usually in presentation marks). In the traditional system of judging, this means that the previous poster was correct about the "ordinal system where skater A gets 5.9 and skater B (usually Michelle Kwan) skates with more fire and presentation,thus recieving 6.0s.

    6.0s have, even of late, been reserved for special performances where the artistic expression value of the program trancended its technical aims and was emotionally evocative enough to merit the highest marks ( see above remarks about MK, please add Brian Boitano and Paul Wylie's names, as well

    I believed Sasha recieved her 6.0 at Nats because she was marked more in accordance of the new COP system where she would have still racked up a tremendous amount of points for the elements she executed well and excelled. By the same token, MK reigned in a few more for the record book at Nats and IMHO probably scored her 6.0s on both the "special performance" and CoPs scale.

    I think that 'Shelly's fans will be more disappointed in not having even more 6.0s than she is. If she contiues upping her tech and presentation skills, she may break CoP records too!

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by sk8m8
    [B]
    I believed Sasha recieved her 6.0 at Nats because she was marked more in accordance of the new COP system where she would have still racked up a tremendous amount of points for the elements she executed well and excelled.
    --------------

    Puzzled...if Sasha flutzes instead of lutz, how can she excelled in the lutz elements
    especially with the "new" COP system.


    Also do the judges & commentators get a program of when the skater will do which element? I keep hearing the commentator say s/he is about to do a ........

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    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Interesting...........and I have also heard, from various posters at different forums, that 6.0's not only should NOT be given for falls, even if the program itself is brilliant, but should NEVER be given unless the skater is the last to skate...........any thoughts on this forum members? 42

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    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Originally posted by show 42
    Interesting...........and I have also heard, from various posters at different forums, that 6.0's not only should NOT be given for falls, even if the program itself is brilliant, but should NEVER be given unless the skater is the last to skate...........any thoughts on this forum members? 42
    If the program has falls, the technical score cannot be 6.0 because falls carry a deduction. I am not sure if they HAVE TO effect the presentation mark. BTW, under CoP, programs that have falls or other serious mistakes must take deductions in some of the Program Elements (such as Presentation).

    As to the last skater, judge cannot give 6.0/6.0 unless it is to the last skater, since ties are not allowed. BTW, under CoP, judge CAN give the same score to multiple skaters.

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    average opinionated skate fan
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    Citris, all I am saying is that Sasha would have racked up an equivalent amont of "presentation points' as a 6.0 under the CoP, yes, there would be markdowns if there was flutz that someone caught, but Sasha's presentation marks under the CoP have been off the charts. Thus the correlation

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    Under the old system 6.0 was imho kind of reserved for perfectness.

    Of course the main point in the judging system was ranking the skaters one against the other. If a judge begins "too high" with his marks he/she might run into problems if the skaters to come perform better and even better. So the last skater might get a 6.0 "accidentally" even though it's still not perfect, simply because the skater was just better than the ones before. This might have occurred especially if the favorites are not last and a surprise comes up late.

    On the other hand this means that judges rarely gave out 6.0s if a skater is NOT last (see the above problem). Which means even more if a skater nevertheless gets 6.0s when skating not last. This was a rare event. And I wouldn't just say "before T&D" but also "before AND after T&D". They were so far ahead in the competition that it was no danger for the judges to hand out the perfect marks if deserved. I'd also say this is "easier" in ice dance than in single or pairs cause the skaters usually perform without major mistakes and the judges know therefore in advance what they might expect. Rare event that a dance couple is able to make an uproar within an event.

  11. #11
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    On the other hand this means that judges rarely gave out 6.0s if a skater is NOT last (see the above problem). Which means even more if a skater nevertheless gets 6.0s when skating not last. This was a rare event.
    I gotta watch more skating, cause it seems to me like it's just the oposite as what you say, satistically.

    Chen Lu at 96 worlds and Irina at 02 worlds imediately come to mind.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by berthes ghost
    I gotta watch more skating, cause it seems to me like it's just the oposite as what you say, satistically.

    Chen Lu at 96 worlds and Irina at 02 worlds imediately come to mind.
    Perhaps I should put it the other way round. If a very good skater with a very good performance skates LAST, the chance for 6.0 is much higher.

  13. #13
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Here is a hypothetical happening: Take a well-known skater whose Presentation is normally priceless. She does an excellent technical program but falls three times. The technical scores will be lower (somewhat - after all she is well-known) but it will not effect her Presentation scores on that NIGHT because normally her presentation is priceless, and this one was excellent except for the falls. In other words, the falls did not affect her presentation. hmmm.

    The above could and has happened. Let's not get into who I am talking about. That is irrelevant. It is the happening that is important on this thread.

    Are you happy as a figure skating fan to accept that falls have no affect to the Presentation on THAT NIGHT only?

    Joe

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    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    My point is, if a skater (pairs or dancers) in the last flight, does not draw the last skating position, does that automatically rule them out for a 6.0 for presentation? Let's say their tech score is 5.7, couldn't their presentation be 6.0 and not block out skaters who haven't skated yet? 42

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    Originally posted by sk8m8
    Citris, all I am saying is that Sasha would have racked up an equivalent amont of "presentation points' as a 6.0 under the CoP, yes, there would be markdowns if there was flutz that someone caught, but Sasha's presentation marks under the CoP have been off the charts. Thus the correlation
    As an uninformed member of the general public, I find that even under the CoP system, the judges are not doing their jobs as "cheating" is either not recognized or is encouraged; judging on "faith" eliminates the impartiallity of the judges.

    The CoP would be better if the scores for each element are also posted; of course, this may lead to more disputes which would get more people to watch figure skating. :-))

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