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Thread: Mao's new SP!!

  1. #46
    Ya'll just need to ignore it. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    It doesn't mean much. I'm just saying she should skate better. Maybe attempting an easier layout would help because this is an exhibition, anyway.
    I think it's quite admirable that she decided to perform her planned competitive(?) layout under show lights. The video clip was one performance out of several. She might have landed those jumps when TV cameras weren't there/filming. Sometimes, the criticism is that skaters are falling back on "too-easy" jumps in exhibition and not "earning" their money. And what would you propose to those skaters who fall on toeloops and salchows under show lights? Not do any jumps?

    Besides, no one told [name redacted] to ease off on the triple lutz in one of their exhibition programs last year. If I remember correctly, people were more like, "OMG~ [Name redacted] did a triple lutz! No one ever does hard jumps during exhibitions!" (Which was definitely not true, by the way.) Show programs are kinda like practices with a large audience and minimal light. Might as well take advantage of it, right?

    I think it's admirable for both of them to at least give the crowd a thrill by attempting harder jumps when they don't have to. They don't have to be perfect all the time--just try not to show up with jumps planned into your program, but barely being able to do a 2A. *coughsashain2007cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    No asked you your opinion. Other skaters have announced their Programs worry about them and leave Mao alone.
    Lest you forget, this is a forum. No one "asked" for Moment's opinion, but no one asked for yours or mine either. It is open discussion.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    It doesn't mean much. I'm just saying she should skate better. Maybe attempting an easier layout would help because this is an exhibition, anyway.
    Whether or not Mao decides to show a preview of her competitive program at a show is her prerogative. There is nothing wrong with testing the waters.
    Ideally, skaters would be presenting perfect programs all the time, but we all know that this does not happen even with easier jump content.

    Perhaps the reason why posters are not positively responding to your initial comment, is the possibility to interpret your words as having a snarky undertone. Sometimes what we mean to communicate doesn't get fully transmitted.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    No asked you your opinion. Other skaters have announced their Programs worry about them and leave Mao alone. We know you don't like her and dislike everything she does, but don't you ever get tired of your Mao venom just saying
    Venom? That sounds scary!

    If you don't like my posts, don't read them. What's tiring is your false accusations.

  4. #49
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    Venom? That sounds scary!

    If you don't like my posts, don't read them. What's tiring is your false accusations.
    Believe me I try my best not to read you, but your constant venom against Mao and everything that is said about her is annoying. What false accusations? You dislike Mao.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I think it's quite admirable that she decided to perform her planned competitive(?) layout under show lights. The video clip was one performance out of several. She might have landed those jumps when TV cameras weren't there/filming. Sometimes, the criticism is that skaters are falling back on "too-easy" jumps in exhibition and not "earning" their money. And what would you propose to those skaters who fall on toeloops and salchows under show lights? Not do any jumps?

    Besides, no one told [name redacted] to ease off on the triple lutz in one of their exhibition programs last year. If I remember correctly, people were more like, "OMG~ [Name redacted] did a triple lutz! No one ever does hard jumps during exhibitions!" (Which was definitely not true, by the way.) Show programs are kinda like practices with a large audience and minimal light. Might as well take advantage of it, right?

    I think it's admirable for both of them to at least give the crowd a thrill by attempting harder jumps when they don't have to. They don't have to be perfect all the time--just try not to show up with jumps planned into your program, but barely being able to do a 2A. *coughsashain2007cough*



    Lest you forget, this is a forum. No one "asked" for Moment's opinion, but no one asked for yours or mine either. It is open discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by babyalligator View Post
    Whether or not Mao decides to show a preview of her competitive program at a show is her prerogative. There is nothing wrong with testing the waters.
    Ideally, skaters would be presenting perfect programs all the time, but we all know that this does not happen even with easier jump content.

    Perhaps the reason why posters are not positively responding to your initial comment, is the possibility to interpret your words as having a snarky undertone. Sometimes what we mean to communicate doesn't get fully transmitted.
    Fair enough.

  6. #51
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I think it's quite admirable that she decided to perform her planned competitive(?) layout under show lights. The video clip was one performance out of several. She might have landed those jumps when TV cameras weren't there/filming. Sometimes, the criticism is that skaters are falling back on "too-easy" jumps in exhibition and not "earning" their money. And what would you propose to those skaters who fall on toeloops and salchows under show lights? Not do any jumps?

    Besides, no one told [name redacted] to ease off on the triple lutz in one of their exhibition programs last year. If I remember correctly, people were more like, "OMG~ [Name redacted] did a triple lutz! No one ever does hard jumps during exhibitions!" (Which was definitely not true, by the way.) Show programs are kinda like practices with a large audience and minimal light. Might as well take advantage of it, right?

    I think it's admirable for both of them to at least give the crowd a thrill by attempting harder jumps when they don't have to. They don't have to be perfect all the time--just try not to show up with jumps planned into your program, but barely being able to do a 2A. *coughsashain2007cough*



    Lest you forget, this is a forum. No one "asked" for Moment's opinion, but no one asked for yours or mine either. It is open discussion.
    I have a lot respect for you as a poster because your comments are respectful and meaningful, but sorry even if it is a forum does not mean that is ok to constantly use a thread about a skater you dislike to make tasteless comments. So, I should have said I don't care about your opinion Moment

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Maturity, yes, but she has lost a lot of her effortless flow over the ice and a lot of her beautiful lines.

    Sorry, but this program is totally mediocore to me. Very little of it is truly one with the music, most of it looks like its just there to tick off a required box (her flying camel is NOT good), and there are no special highlights. Look at the gorgeous way she came out of her Triple Lutz in the 2007 program (and also how she goes into it), her wonderful spiral extensions, her light-as-a-feather double axel, and the magical position and timing of her twizzles at the end of her footwork sequence. That's 4 special, memorable things. This program has 0.

    I just hope that Mao is at least able to skate with freedom at the Olympics. It used to feel like she was at home on the ice, but now the majority of the time it looks like she doesn't really want to be out there.
    I agree with a majority of what you said, although I feel that if she lands the triple axel at the Olympics it'll be a special moment even if it isn't really one choreographically speaking. I don't think it's as awful as I originally thought. I think the problem is it's in direct comparison with her old short which was magic. This one isn't magic, it's good enough, (better than "I got Rhythm") but not magic and that makes it seem quite uninspired and second-rate. I think it will serve her quite nicely though without those moments of pure magic that everyone remembers. There's always Japanese Nationals 2010-2011 Free Skate to watch anyway *swoons*

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    You can not be serious. This Chopin contains breathtaking emotional highs and is adorned with beautiful playful use of tones and trills to highlight the heart fluttering moments of brimming passion spilt over before realizing one's self awareness. It is certainly easily impressionable as if you hear the music the first time. The final passage of the music especially recalls greater depth of emotion lyricism that summarize the conclusion of the love and admiration with fortissimo repeat of the main them to reaffirm affection with greater intensity then gently calm down to its softness self assurance and recollecting moments of romanticism.

    The first 2 notes (B flat and G) are the main key motifs for the whole piece and should be highlighted where ever possible, like a beginning of a paragraph of poetry, of love letter, a deep held breathe, a moment held on to dear life as linger to breathtaking love at first sights sort of emotions. The softness, gentle ascension of melody, the build ups, of descriptive movements is pure romanticism of the 19th century. It is the epitome of 19th century young gentleman (innocent, unseasoned) sort of unspoken love/sentimentality, polite exteriors, repressed but brimming passion and admiration wrapped up in a secret whisper to oneself, suffered in loneliness without any expectation. Choreographically and performance wise, there are heaps of opportunity for emotional lingering, presenting the change in mood at key melodic changes which should be highlighted for the full effect. The noticeable lack of highlight along the same monotonic lyricism in Mao's performance clearly indicate her failure to comprehend the music with the the necessary rhythmic interpretation at key moments with clarity to bring out the necessary emotional highlights of the music. Is her romanticism entirely onto herself, her past and the idea of skating? Or love for someone else, sensuality, repressed passion and admiration framed by etiquette of civility as the composer intended for his lady friend who's married to one of his friend...
    Wow!

    Unfortunately, no figure skater in history could manage a tenth of all those musical nuances in a competitive performance.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Wow!

    Unfortunately, no figure skater in history could manage a tenth of all those musical nuances in a competitive performance.
    Of course they can, and many are capable of managing more including herself in the past.
    In any case I am not convinced this is really the music to her choreography (or the other way round) due to the out of sync factor.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    You can not be serious. This Chopin contains breathtaking emotional highs and is adorned with beautiful playful use of tones and trills to highlight the heart fluttering moments of brimming passion spilt over before realizing one's self awareness. It is certainly easily impressionable as if you hear the music the first time. The final passage of the music especially recalls greater depth of emotion lyricism that summarize the conclusion of the love and admiration with fortissimo repeat of the main them to reaffirm affection with greater intensity then gently calm down to its softness self assurance and recollecting moments of romanticism.

    The first 2 notes (B flat and G) are the main key motifs for the whole piece and should be highlighted where ever possible, like a beginning of a paragraph of poetry, of love letter, a deep held breathe, a moment held on to dear life as linger to breathtaking love at first sights sort of emotions. The softness, gentle ascension of melody, the build ups, of descriptive movements is pure romanticism of the 19th century. It is the epitome of 19th century young gentleman (innocent, unseasoned) sort of unspoken love/sentimentality, polite exteriors, repressed but brimming passion and admiration wrapped up in a secret whisper to oneself, suffered in loneliness without any expectation. Choreographically and performance wise, there are heaps of opportunity for emotional lingering, presenting the change in mood at key melodic changes which should be highlighted for the full effect. The noticeable lack of highlight along the same monotonic lyricism in Mao's performance clearly indicate her failure to comprehend the music with the the necessary rhythmic interpretation at key moments with clarity to bring out the necessary emotional highlights of the music. Is her romanticism entirely onto herself, her past and the idea of skating? Or love for someone else, sensuality, repressed passion and admiration framed by etiquette of civility as the composer intended for his lady friend who's married to one of his friend.

    Actually I am wondering if this is really the correct music cut to her choreography. To put bluntly, they don't seem to go together, and doesn't even sound like live recording. it looks like a fan vid with a dubbed independent track to another performance. they are not in sync. There's no doubt Mao is a beautiful show skater but this choreography doesn't fit the track other than they share similar gentle lovely qualities. (When you leave Jump issues aside, I don't see how this is a competitive program, but it does make a lovely show program if your sole interest is to see Mao skating beautifully with pleasant background music regardless what it is.)
    Compared to the other nocturnes he composed, they aren't as noticeable. Nor to other more dramatic pieces where the highs and lows are more obvious. In my opinion, the piece itself is lovely but less interesting than other Chopin pieces. Mao made it memorable with her performance of it back in 2006. Choreographically speaking, I prefer the original but I feel her recent performances are much more nuanced and she is feeling the music more. In 2006, her performance was carried by the superb choreography of the program, whereas now I feel it is other way around.

    And I have to disagree with your assessment of her understanding of the music. Her style might not suit some types of music, but when it comes to Chopin, they are a perfect match. Also, this is not an easy piece to skate well to for the reasons stated above and I think she managed to do it almost to perfection back in 2006. I'm not sure if anyone else could have done it better. Of course, since Mao is the only skater I can remember skating to this piece in recent memory, it is hard to compare. But until I see a better performance to this piece of music, I consider this to be her signature piece.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Of course they can, and many are capable of managing more including herself in the past.
    Link, please, to acompetitive performance that takes advantage of repeated B flats and Gs to capture the epitome of a 19th century young gentleman (innocent, unseasoned) sort of unspoken love/sentimentality, polite exteriors, repressed but brimming passion and admiration wrapped up in a secret whisper to oneself, suffered in loneliness without any expectation -- all while throwing in a triple Axel (8.5 points!), presumably on one of those B flats or Gs.

    A performance, that is to say, that makes the audience say, "Aha! That skater clearly is experiencing repressed passion and admiration framed by etiquette of civility with regard to his lady friend who's married to one of his friends. {FCCoSp4, 3.5 points! don't miss the haircutter variation.)

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Link, please, to acompetitive performance that takes advantage of repeated B flats and Gs to capture the epitome of a 19th century young gentleman (innocent, unseasoned) sort of unspoken love/sentimentality, polite exteriors, repressed but brimming passion and admiration wrapped up in a secret whisper to oneself, suffered in loneliness without any expectation -- all while throwing in a triple Axel (8.5 points!), presumably on one of those B flats or Gs.

    A performance, that is to say, that makes the audience say, "Aha! That skater clearly is experiencing repressed passion and admiration framed by etiquette of civility with regard to his lady friend who's married to one of his friends. {FCCoSp4, 3.5 points! don't miss the haircutter variation.)
    The way os168 describes the music makes the task sound daunting, but ultimately, what I believe she is talking about, is whether or not the skater in question understands what he or she is skating to. Does the skater have an understanding of the music, what its context is, what it is meant to convey. All that should translate into a skater's performance, enabling him or her to better connect to the music and the audience. And she's right. Chopin is anything but emotionally disconnected.

  13. #58
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Link, please, to acompetitive performance that takes advantage of repeated B flats and Gs to capture the epitome of a 19th century young gentleman (innocent, unseasoned) sort of unspoken love/sentimentality, polite exteriors, repressed but brimming passion and admiration wrapped up in a secret whisper to oneself, suffered in loneliness without any expectation -- all while throwing in a triple Axel (8.5 points!), presumably on one of those B flats or Gs.

    A performance, that is to say, that makes the audience say, "Aha! That skater clearly is experiencing repressed passion and admiration framed by etiquette of civility with regard to his lady friend who's married to one of his friends. {FCCoSp4, 3.5 points! don't miss the haircutter variation.)
    Oh please... it is one thing to mock my music interpretation and analysis of the music which certainly include sensationalized descriptive language trying to emulate the emotions felt through music, but it is perfectly justified when there are those who says this piece of music is without highlights and are merely seamless flow when it is clearly distinguishable in parts therefore calls for such. Or that the performed choreography is simply is not in sync with the music and made no reference ot it. What is the point of a music interpretation if there aren't any? Surely I am not alone in seeing this? Besides, this clip is show skating, not competition.

    You said no skater are capable of delivering one tenth of the music nuances in this piece NOT whether they have done it, I simply think you are dead wrong. Not even 10%?! So out of 2mins 40 seconds, only 24 seconds are related (needed) to the music? I think many are capable, but just hasn't been given the chance. It is a bit useless to ask for the link when you know no such link likely to exist (i havn't bother to search for it). Just because one has no evidence doesn't mean one's opinion is wrong when it is based on decades of experience, knowledge and learning on the subject. Besides, I can throw your challenge right back at you to say show me another link who has missed more than 90% of the nuances based on the same piece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    The first 2 notes (B flat and G) are the main key motifs for the whole piece and should be highlighted where ever possible, like a beginning of a paragraph of poetry, of love letter, a deep held breathe, a moment held on to dear life as linger to breathtaking love at first sights sort of emotions. The softness, gentle ascension of melody, the build ups, of descriptive movements is pure romanticism of the 19th century. It is the epitome of 19th century young gentleman (innocent, unseasoned) sort of unspoken love/sentimentality, polite exteriors, repressed but brimming passion and admiration wrapped up in a secret whisper to oneself, suffered in loneliness without any expectation. Choreographically and performance wise, there are heaps of opportunity for emotional lingering, presenting the change in mood at key melodic changes which should be highlighted for the full effect. The noticeable lack of highlight along the same monotonic lyricism in Mao's performance clearly indicate her failure to comprehend the music with the the necessary rhythmic interpretation at key moments with clarity to bring out the necessary emotional highlights of the music. Is her romanticism entirely onto herself, her past and the idea of skating? Or love for someone else, sensuality, repressed passion and admiration framed by etiquette of civility as the composer intended for his lady friend who's married to one of his friend.

    Actually I am wondering if this is really the correct music cut to her choreography. To put bluntly, they don't seem to go together, and doesn't even sound like live recording. it looks like a fan vid with a dubbed independent track to another performance. they are not in sync. There's no doubt Mao is a beautiful show skater but this choreography doesn't fit the track other than they share similar gentle lovely qualities. (When you leave Jump issues aside, I don't see how this is a competitive program, but it does make a lovely show program if your sole interest is to see Mao skating beautifully with pleasant background music regardless what it is.)
    This is really good musical analysis - are you a music teacher/major? In any case, I see and hear your point; I think that Mao skates to the music beautifully, and the quality of the music highlights the amazing sensitivity and lightness that she has while skating. However, the music and choreography don't match up in a way that highlights why this music was chosen with the current choreography Mao has. ... (Is it too much to hope for a choreographic rehaul to take place, a la Weaver/Poje's FD last season?)

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