- Joined
- Aug 29, 2013
I would like to know what are the criteria for judging ISU judges and assess the layback spins to level 4 .. you need to end the turn with biellman?
best laybacks and criteria to achieve level 4
- Thread starter LuisRollerArg
- Start date
See ISU Communication 1790 here
The features for spins are as follows:
For level 4, you need any four of the above. I've bolded the ones that are relevant to the standard forward layback spin (no fly, no change of foot, no change of basic position) as required in the ladies' short program).
Feature #5, which I italicized, backward entrance -- i.e., performing the layback, as a backspin, on the other foot spinning toward the free leg instead of toward the spinning leg -- is also legal and adds one feature, but it's really difficult to achieve other features in a layback position as a backspin, so not many skaters have ever tried it and offhand I don't know that any of them achieved level 4.
Criteria for judges to award positive GOE on spins:
The general guideline is one + for any two of these bullet points. So if the spin meets at least 6 bullet points it should earn +3.
Guidelines for negative GOE on spins:
Again, since there's no flying entry of change of foot involved, only the reductions I've made bold (common in laybacks) or ital (less common) would apply.
The features for spins are as follows:
For level 4, you need any four of the above. I've bolded the ones that are relevant to the standard forward layback spin (no fly, no change of foot, no change of basic position) as required in the ladies' short program).
Feature #5, which I italicized, backward entrance -- i.e., performing the layback, as a backspin, on the other foot spinning toward the free leg instead of toward the spinning leg -- is also legal and adds one feature, but it's really difficult to achieve other features in a layback position as a backspin, so not many skaters have ever tried it and offhand I don't know that any of them achieved level 4.
Criteria for judges to award positive GOE on spins:
The general guideline is one + for any two of these bullet points. So if the spin meets at least 6 bullet points it should earn +3.
Guidelines for negative GOE on spins:
Again, since there's no flying entry of change of foot involved, only the reductions I've made bold (common in laybacks) or ital (less common) would apply.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2013
Who do you think makes the best layback? I think the best are Viktoria Helgesson an Akiko Suzuki! soooooooooo faster!
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I'd say a lot of it is how much they actually lay back into the spin as well as how high their free leg is
Also speed and centering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnLVhtkQDFI
Alissa Czisny has one of the best laybacks IMO (As do Sasha Cohen and Ekaterina Bobrova if you're just talking position since she's doing it in a dance spin)
http://usfsa.org/content/events/200405/campbellsclassic/photos/cohen-layback.jpg
http://photography.ice-dance.com/2012-13/cache/12SA/DPractF/12SA-DPractF-0200-BS-RR_595.jpg
BTW welcome to the board
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- Jul 1, 2013
Definitely Alissa Czisny, Caroline Zhang and Sasha Cohen. I think Sasha has the best classic layback position ever, but I don't like how she did her Biellmann which is odd considering her flexibility. I don't know if she got level 4's on them or not. Alissa of course has amazing speed, centering and acceleration. It's interesting to note that the majority of U.S. ladies have pretty laybacks whether they achieve the levels or not. Even Rachel Flatt with her bad back and all has a nice classic layback. Maybe it's because of Dick Button's commentary in past and how he would rant if he saw an ugly layback position. I do agree with him though. Having the free leg properly turned out and lifted will do so much for the aesthetics of the spin even if other features are deficient. Unfortunately it's not the part of the spin that's scored. I do love Akiko but spins are not her forte. She doesn't have good back flexibility so her positions are strained.
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- Aug 29, 2013
Viktoria Helgeson http://youtu.be/e9caBRBZyGM at 1:20 very very fast!
It is very fast indeed but to me it's not a layback spin but rather an upright spin with bent head and leg.
The sideways position looks decent. I guess that's probably how she gets credit for the acceleration feature.
Most people forget about her but Naomi Nari Nam had a position in layback as good as Karen's AND she could hold it much longer than for example Sasha, she also had better speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S7EEHAM6nU&t=109s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqdTpbD5hVg&t=72
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S7EEHAM6nU&t=109s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqdTpbD5hVg&t=72
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
Ruh was perfectly capable of executing a layback with 4 of the features listed at the beginning of my first post -- i.e., of performing a level 4 layback. But to the best of my knowledge she never perforned 4 of those features within the same spin. Why should she? She didn't know that several years in the future the rules would grant more points to putting this exact combination of skills together into one spin (or that Biellmann position would be allowed as part of the required short program layback).
Also it was allowed to do more total spins in the free program, and since that was her best skill, she usually did more than 3 or 4 different spins, thus spreading out the difficult skills (featured) across more separate spins.
+3 GOE absolutely; most of the laybacks she performed would easily qualify.
Ditto for Nathalie Krieg, BTW.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Definitely. I'm still waiting to see someone do this. No one is doing this version of a catchfoot/Biellmann. I would take someone with an extremely flexible back but, off the top of my head, Mirai or Julia could pull this off without any trouble. Of course, speed is a key factor in all of Krieg's spins...she was a blur!
Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill for the classic position (with leg turned out). Other superior lay backs: Lucinda Ruh, Mirai Nagasu.
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- Sep 14, 2008
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I'm very confused why more people weren't using the re-introduced "clear increase of speed" level feature for their Layback this past season. Yu-Na in particular used to do that so well and I wish she'd bring it back. Her layback this past season was the worst it's ever been. 
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- Jan 15, 2010
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- Oct 22, 2005
I'm very confused why more people weren't using the re-introduced "clear increase of speed" level feature for their Layback this past season. Yu-Na in particular used to do that so well and I wish she'd bring it back. Her layback this past season was the worst it's ever been.
Because tech panels have gotten much stricter on clear increase of speed.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
How do you get stricter on something as objective as speed? If it's still arbitrary, then they should start measuring RPM and stipulating the RPM increase required to count as "clear" - we have video recordings and image analysis software for this kind of thing. The technical panel can just be there for ensuring the software hasn't been fooled.
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