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Thread: best laybacks and criteria to achieve level 4

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Definitely. I'm still waiting to see someone do this. No one is doing this version of a catchfoot/Biellmann. I would take someone with an extremely flexible back but, off the top of my head, Mirai or Julia could pull this off without any trouble. Of course, speed is a key factor in all of Krieg's spins...she was a blur!
    Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill for the classic position (with leg turned out). Other superior lay backs: Lucinda Ruh, Mirai Nagasu.

  2. #17
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    I'm very confused why more people weren't using the re-introduced "clear increase of speed" level feature for their Layback this past season. Yu-Na in particular used to do that so well and I wish she'd bring it back. Her layback this past season was the worst it's ever been.

  3. #18
    Blue-footed Booby aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Definitely. I'm still waiting to see someone do this. No one is doing this version of a catchfoot/Biellmann.

  4. #19
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I'm very confused why more people weren't using the re-introduced "clear increase of speed" level feature for their Layback this past season. Yu-Na in particular used to do that so well and I wish she'd bring it back. Her layback this past season was the worst it's ever been.
    Because tech panels have gotten much stricter on clear increase of speed.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Because tech panels have gotten much stricter on clear increase of speed.
    How do you get stricter on something as objective as speed? If it's still arbitrary, then they should start measuring RPM and stipulating the RPM increase required to count as "clear" - we have video recordings and image analysis software for this kind of thing. The technical panel can just be there for ensuring the software hasn't been fooled.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    How do you get stricter on something as objective as speed? If it's still arbitrary, then they should start measuring RPM and stipulating the RPM increase required to count as "clear" - we have video recordings and image analysis software for this kind of thing. The technical panel can just be there for ensuring the software hasn't been fooled.
    I've always been of the view that this is the general direction that things will go in the long term. In the short term, the issues are cost and institutional inertia. A related issue is that it doesn't make sense to install such elaborate systems just for measuring the rotational acceleration of spins. It would have to be in the context of a more wide-ranging technological overhaul of how skating is judged and presented. (I think I wrote a speculative piece on this a while back)

  7. #22
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Because tech panels have gotten much stricter on clear increase of speed.
    I wouldn't say that? The feature was take about for many seasons and just came back last season. There's not really much of a comparison to go off of since barely anyone attempted the feature last season. I think you just have to be smart about it. Do a classic layback position and then pull in with both the arms and the free leg. You're going to increase in speed and the change of arm/leg position makes it obvious.

  8. #23
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    A good example of the layback utilizing the increase of speed feature: Viktoria Helgesson
    A bad one: Daisuke Takahashi

  9. #24
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    Julia has very unique layback
    she starts with average speed in her spin to faster spin by changing the pace in of speed in edge of her blades

    Julia's change in layback spin speed
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q002z500A-I

  10. #25
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    I don't know all of the skaters above the list but I really like Julia Lipnitskaia's spins and Eelena Radionova' pearl spin.

  11. #26
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I wouldn't say that? Do a classic layback position and then pull in with both the arms and the free leg. You're going to increase in speed and the change of arm/leg position makes it obvious.
    Actually, I believe you have to stay in the same position for it to count in listening to tech panel people who have gone through some of the most recent training, which means no change of arms/leg position. If that's not true, then these folks are being taught something incorrectly/misunderstand what they are being taught which is the same thing...

  12. #27
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    fastest laybacks: Viktoria Helgesson, Kiira Korpi, Valentina Marchei, Akiko Suzuki.... no end with biellman

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Actually, I believe you have to stay in the same position for it to count in listening to tech panel people who have gone through some of the most recent training, which means no change of arms/leg position. If that's not true, then these folks are being taught something incorrectly/misunderstand what they are being taught which is the same thing...
    Yeah, that's the stupidest thing about this level feature. As far as I know, it's supposed to be an increase of speed once you're in the position. The problem is, how do you actually increase speed unless you change the position (i.e. pull the leg in closer or your arms tighter). Otherwise many skaters would have an "increase of speed" since usually their sit positions are much faster than their camel position preceding it, and the same with the layback having a slower initial layback but then as you pull the leg in for a haircutter the speed will increase.

  14. #29
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Actually, I believe you have to stay in the same position for it to count in listening to tech panel people who have gone through some of the most recent training, which means no change of arms/leg position. If that's not true, then these folks are being taught something incorrectly/misunderstand what they are being taught which is the same thing...
    As long as you are staying in a Camel, Sit, Layback/Upright, or "intermediate" position and not going into a difficult variation of position, it counts as the same position. Although the rules don't include "intermediate" positions for the clear-increase-of-speed feature to be applicable.

  15. #30
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    The opening spin in this program at the 1981 Worlds is the best classical layback I have seen

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrwQ1C9rlHI

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