The future of US Skating

alicelouise · Jan 24, 2004

Is there anyone who is apprehensive about the future of US Ladies figure skating after Michelle Kwan retires?

The only category of US skating that seems to be improving is Ice Dance. The team with the best hope for an Olympic medal probably won't be able to compete in 2006.... Things seem dire.

As it stands right now the US skater with the best chance for an Olympic medal is Michelle Kwan. US skating seems to need Michelle more than Michelle needs US skating. After Michelle, there is a sharp drop off of consistency(not artistry and talent) in the US Ladies field. The future to me does not look promising compared to other countries. I would be more than happy if someone tore my arguments to shreds. If you can please have at it.

As for US Pairs they should see this time as an opportunity. Absolutely, nothing is expected of them. They can experiment, go to the drawing board, without an intrusive media.

The guys seem to be going the way of Pairs. There doesn't seem to be anyone after Michael W. and Timothy G. The skaters behind them don't even seem to be considering quad jumps. There isn't consistency either.

I hate to sound so gloomy, but if you can prove me wrong please do so!!!

Jaana · Jan 24, 2004

About US men I think that Weir is practicing a quad, or have I got it wrong? I just read somewhere that Lysacek will try to jump one at Junior Worlds. I would expect that after 2006 Olympics there will again be new skaters.

About ladies, my guess is that there will be new exciting skaters, which may seem like jumping beans today.

Marjaana

Ptichka · Jan 24, 2004

I do not share the pessimism. I think Michelle-Sasha-Jenny is a very strong team. Many other ladies in the top ten have a lot of potential; so do many in the junior ranks. Most imortant, thought, is that several excellent ladies coaches take on many new talented skaters every year. We may not have a world champ every year, but as long as we have a strong school, we have nothing to worry about.

I agree about imporvement in Ice Dance. However, if you look at the ice dancers at Nationals, everyone above Galler-Rabinovitch/ Mitchell have at least one non-US partner; in all cases except for Belbin/ Agosto, the non-US partner is Russian. This tells me that US still has a long way to go in developing young talent.

Pairs -- unfortunately, the less said the better. Then again, the whole discipline is kind of in decline with the exception of the Chinese.

Men -- I am not sure. Johnny Weir and Evan Lysacek both can, I think, do the quad. They both haved the potential to be powerful forces on the international circuit.

So, overall, I am only really pessimistic about the pairs. That's mainly because I do not see in the US a good school that can turn out good potential pair skaters.

berthes ghost · Jan 24, 2004

Oh please!

Guilty as I am of constantly calling Sasha overhyped, let's give the girl her due. If Kwan had decided to pack it in after her Vancouver win, Cohen would now be a 2 time nat champ, 2 time world bronze medalist and Oly bronze medalist.

Kirk and AP are recent junior world champs.

Most nations would give their right arm to be saddled with the loosers you see in US ladies skating's future.

I remember back in 99 when everyone was all up in arms, "Todd come back, we need you!" etc... Then look what happened in SLC. Now all of a sudden Tim and Mike are our only hope when just 4 years ago they weren't good enough. Now all of a sudden they are our only hope at worlds, but somehow neither can win even nationals. :rolleye:

Let's give the younger guys a chance at least before we condem them to failure.

US pairs and Ice Dance have always been weak, nothing new there. Again, let's give these guys a chance before we act as judge, jury and executioner. Sure I&Z eaked out a bronze at 02 worlds, but in 99 they sucked big time.

lulu · Jan 24, 2004

I agree with everything Berthes ghost said,

The US ladies team is very strong. Not saying that they will sweep the podiums, or that they face no strong challenges. But, I would not be suprised* if both Sasha and Michelle make it to the podium in Germany.

I agree with Dick Button

eek: ) that the men in the US are very strong. For all purposes lets say that Tim Goebel is not able to compete in Turin( and I hope he is), we still have Johnny, Evan and even Ryan Jahnke. Right now, they probably would not make the podium at Worlds. But, in two years from now, taking that they have no injuries and their skating continues to improve... They should do well.

Dance, like Ptichka said, the top dance teams all consist of one foreign partner. I would love to see more kids, especially BOYS get involved in skating, but that is unlikely to happen (sorry, another topic

)
As for pairs, we've never been strong in pairs. We have had good teams, but pairs have never been are strong suit. I don't expect it ever to be.

Tonichelle · Jan 24, 2004

Men I see no problem
Ladies definately have no worries
Ice Dance -- barring any really bad injuries on Tanith & Ben's parts... they'll be around for a long time

Pairs -- I see no future... in fact, we have no PRESENT :laugh:

Enero · Jan 24, 2004

Tonichelle said:
Pairs -- I see no future... in fact, we have no PRESENT

So true. It's too bad that Ina and Zimmerman(?) are no longer on the scene. They were our only hope.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 24, 2004

My take on this and I will compare it to others.

Ladies: The US is the Tops
The Ruissians are nothing special
The Ukrainians are promising.
The French are nothing special
The Japanese are more than promising.

The Men: The US are among the tops
The Russians are the tops
The French have only l (and Belgium Switzerland, too)
The Japanese are soso
The Chinese are showing promise.

The Pairs: The Chinese are the tops
The Russians offere some competition
The Canadians are regrouping
The US, imo, is better than one thinks.

The Dance: the Russians are tops
Tje US is begiing to move forward
The French always have a good couple
Tje Italians, also a good couple

Anyone disagree?

Joe

T

Kasey · Jan 24, 2004

Women's has McDonough, Liang, Meissner, Kirk, Cohen...the oldest of that group right now is only 19. Kirk has triple-triple combo and a lot of style. Cohen, as much as *I* don't care for her, has loads of talent and style, if she can hold it all together for the big competitions.

For men, there is Weir, Lysacek, Bradley, Brauninger, and several others I can't think of off the top of my head. True, none of them have a quad right now...but they have talent, they have style, and they have excitement to their skating.

I can't really comment on pairs or dance, as I'm not overly interested in either of those disciplines...but from what I see, the US has a lot more talent and possibilities than you might think.

Kasey

Vash01 · Jan 24, 2004

I would not worry about US ladies. If Michelle were to retire today (I hope she does not), Sasha, Jenny, AP, Biatrisa, and others can compete with anybody in the world. The Japanese ladies are rising but they are still no threat to the US ladies (in spite of the 3-3, quads, and triple axels). That could change by 2006 but I am sure there are lots of talented young US ladies we have not yet seen.

That said, US pairs look pitiful. This is the worst I have seen. I have no hope for them at least in the 2006 Olympics.

Ice dance is a pleasant surprise. I would love to see Belbin-Agosto develop into a top level team. There are quite a few ice dance teams that are still developing. Since the US never did well in ice dance in the past (except may be when Blumberg-Siebert were skating and I was not watching), it will be easy to show improvement.

The mens group is interesting. We still have the quad king Tim Goebel, who will be hopefully back next year. Johnny Weir definitely has the potential to rise to the top, if he can master a quad combination. Same goes for Evan Lysacek. In addition, Scott Smith who already has a quad, and may be Parker Pennington could develop. By 2006, I think Tim, Johnny, and Evan could be our top 3 skaters and they all will be in medal contention (may be even gold medal contention). I have purposely left out Michael Weiss, mainly because he has been around a long time. It does not mean he cannot compete but he still has problems with the quad (2-footing) and triple axel (poor technique which results in a fall or another problem). Unless he fixes those, I don't see him making the 2006 US Olympic team.

Overall, the future looks good, except in pairs.

mpal2 · Jan 24, 2004

Vash01 said:
Overall, the future looks good, except in pairs.

I have to disagree. I was at Nationals and many of the pairs new to senior level this year show promise. Our juniors look promising too. Right now, our top teams can't compete with the top 5 internationally, but I think the USFSA has been paying attention to pairs and it is beginning to show. I have more hope for the pairs future after seeing all the pairs at Jr/Sr level this year than ever before.

Don and Hunt are looking really good right now for only having 2 seasons together and training was delayed this year due to injuries. They were so much better in practice and I have to wonder how much the singles competition took from Jenny and how much was nerves during the actual competition. They did not skate up to their potential and still managed 4th place. I think the judges were judging practices because I could have seen putting Handy/Allen in 4th from the actual competition programs. Hopefully Don & Hunt will get a full summer of training in for the new season.

For the first time Orscher and Lucash impressed me with their short program. I think they outgrew their LP, but again they were dealing with injuries and may not have had time to get a great LP ready.

I will withhold any further judgement until next season. I was about to give up, but I can hold out for next year to see who managed to stay together. Wait until the newest crop of seniors make their run in 2004/2005 season. I have faith again!

Nadine · Jan 25, 2004

Hmmm....

My (pessimistic, lol) thoughts:

LADIES - not sure......do admit though that the US has become accustomed to young phenoms such as Tara, Sarah & Michelle winning & blowing the field away......thus the present looks quite bleak in comparison. Still, those mentioned are exceptions to the rule ~ still need to wait & see how Sasha Cohen does (will she be another Nicole Bobek in terms of World & Olympic results) ~ or will she be a Nancy Kerrigan, whom consistently medalled at Worlds & Olympics. Same goes for Jennifer Kirk. Wait & see...

MEN - once again, not sure.....though I have to be honest & admit that it doesn't matter to me as much as the ladies field......b/c the ladies discipline is one that the US has a tradition of excellence in, dating back to Tenley Albright winning the first Olympic Gold for American Women in 1956. That said, good luck American Men.

PAIRS - a glimmer of hope still soars high in my soul......I honestly love this discipline as much as I do women's singles (no lie).......thus, I'm hoping & praying that two Top 10 singles in men & women's get together to form an alliance. That which we haven't seen since the days of Tai Babilonia & Randy Gardner! :love:

Mayhap Sasha Cohen & Ryan Bradley or Aaron Parchem or some other hopeful that shows up & places in the Top 10 in the future. Of course, after the 2006 Olympics.

DANCE - honestly don't care (not a sport IMHO).

Peace & Peace & Peace again, Nadine

Ladskater · Jan 25, 2004

alicelouise

Figure skating goes in cycles - National teams fall into those cycles. Everytime a a skater or skaters move on the team has to rebuild. It takes time.

Canada has always had a depth in pairs and dance as well as men' s; our ladies has lacked a lot of depth for many years - but now there is some talent on the horizon!

Our pairs are up and down right now and our dance is certainly missing the presence of Bourne and Kraatz!

It just take time! Be patient.

heyang · Jan 25, 2004

Ladies: definitely dominate overall. There are a lot of skaters ready to step up when MK retires.

Men: on the field. If Plushy doesn't skate, the title is up for grabs.

Pairs: Just finished watching US Pairs SP again. (was only paying attention to the top 3 the 1st time) Definitely have potential greatness moving up. Even though the Russians are still considered strong, I don't think their emotional presence is as pleasing as some of our up and comers. When these pairs improve their technical skills, the US will be more likely world contenders than we are now.

Dance: B&A are our current future. High hopes.

aguyin2003 · Jan 25, 2004

mpal2 said:
I have to disagree. I was at Nationals and many of the pairs new to senior level this year show promise. Our juniors look promising too. Right now, our top teams can't compete with the top 5 internationally, but I think the USFSA has been paying attention to pairs and it is beginning to show. I have more hope for the pairs future after seeing all the pairs at Jr/Sr level this year than ever before.

Don and Hunt are looking really good right now for only having 2 seasons together and training was delayed this year due to injuries. They were so much better in practice and I have to wonder how much the singles competition took from Jenny and how much was nerves during the actual competition. They did not skate up to their potential and still managed 4th place. I think the judges were judging practices because I could have seen putting Handy/Allen in 4th from the actual competition programs. Hopefully Don & Hunt will get a full summer of training in for the new season.

For the first time Orscher and Lucash impressed me with their short program. I think they outgrew their LP, but again they were dealing with injuries and may not have had time to get a great LP ready.

I will withhold any further judgement until next season. I was about to give up, but I can hold out for next year to see who managed to stay together. Wait until the newest crop of seniors make their run in 2004/2005 season. I have faith again!

I agree with you, I think the federation ( even though some might disagree) have been paying attention to pairs and have been working to improve in it. It is showing now with the younger teams. I think they did the same thing with dance and now we are starting to see the results in both senior and junior level. I think our future is bright in every discipline espically ladies and men.

aguyin2003 · Jan 25, 2004

heyang said:
Dance: B&A are our current future. High hopes.

I agree with B/A are our current future , along with G/P, G-R/M, M/Z, D/W, with many others that I can't think of right now.

Ptichka · Jan 25, 2004

The Russians are the tops

Unfortunately, I disagree. Russians have Plushenko, but after that it's nothing special. In fact, I would say that without Evgeny Russian and US teams would be comparable

Italians, also a good couple

Not only do I agree with this, but I would add that Italians have several young promising teams. They seem to have developped a good ice dancing school (with the help of Besemianova & Bukin), so I excpect to see more from them.

brenlynn · Jan 26, 2004

i think the men are on the rise. after seeing evan perform the way he did at 4CC this week, he definetly restored my faith in the US men skating program. he was AMAZING. if he can get the quad consistent, he'll have it all. i see him and weir developing an intense rivarly in the near future. evan was consistent all week, in practice and in the competition. i was shocked, but in a good way!

aguyin2003 · Jan 26, 2004

ohhhh that will be a rivarly to look out for.

Ogre Mage · Jan 26, 2004

alicelouise said:
Is there anyone who is apprehensive about the future of US Ladies figure skating after Michelle Kwan retires?

As it stands right now the US skater with the best chance for an Olympic medal is Michelle Kwan. US skating seems to need Michelle more than Michelle needs US skating. After Michelle, there is a sharp drop off of consistency(not artistry and talent) in the US Ladies field. The future to me does not look promising compared to other countries. I would be more than happy if someone tore my arguments to shreds. If you can please have at it.

I think that Michelle is such an extraordinary skater that she tends to skew our perspective. Many of the USA ladies who place 2-5 at US Nationals could be National Champions of other countries. Furthermore, Sasha, Jenny, Ann Patrice et al. are no worse in their consistency than, say, Carolina, Fumie, Elena, Shizuka or many other International elite ladies skaters. Many of the USA ladies have shown the ability to do well on the GP circuit in Michelle's absence.

With the exception of Japan, I don't see how the future could possibly look better for other countries than the U.S. in ladies skating. With Irina out of the picture, Russia is in trouble. Germany and Canada haven't had top-notch competitors since the late 80s. France? Well, there was Surya "No Basics" Bonaly. China was unable to duplicate Lu Chen's success. The USA has a raft of ladies any of these countries would love to have, not just Michelle.

However, as I suggested earlier, Japan is the rising power in ladies skating. The country has already won worlds twice -- 1989 (Midori Ito) and 1994 (Yuka Sato). However, I've never seen as many promising up and coming contenders as they seem to have now. The future will be interesting, to say the least.

The future of US Skating

alicelouise

Jaana

Ptichka

Forum translator

berthes ghost

lulu

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Enero

Joesitz (RIP)

Kasey

Vash01

mpal2

Nadine

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

heyang

aguyin2003

aguyin2003

Ptichka

Forum translator

brenlynn

aguyin2003

Ogre Mage

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