More Carmen and Swan Lake!!! REALLY?????

GF2445 · Sep 6, 2013

“Swan Lake” and “Carmen”: during the Olympic season, Russian figure skaters stake on classical music. An open training session of Nikolai Morozov’s group has taken place in Novogorsk, near Moscow. Medalists of the European championship in ice dancing Elena Ilinykh and Nikita Katsalapov, and vice-champion of the world in 2012 Alena Leonova have presented their programs....

http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_09_05/Sochi-2014-Russian-figure-skaters-stake-on-classics-0316/

Well....The nutcracker is a nicer choice!

Finnstep · Sep 6, 2013

I actually find Scheherazade to be more overused than Carmen or Swan Lake this season-but that's probably because I saw a lot of Scheherazades going through junior skaters' ISU biography pages.

russell30 · Sep 6, 2013

finnstep said:
i actually find scheherazade to be more overused than carmen or swan lake this season-but that's probably because i saw a lot of scheherazades going through junior skaters' isu biography pages.

This was going to happen as it is the last year for non vocal music, so the old war horses were going to come out

BlackPack · Sep 6, 2013

As long as the judges keep rewarding skaters for overused music, skaters will continue to do so.

SaraM · Sep 6, 2013

God i just think the idea of alowing vocals will ruin this sport.... vocals are for shows not competition...

kwanatic · Sep 6, 2013

100% agreed. I truly fear what we will see/hear next season. :eek:

SaraM · Sep 6, 2013

kwanatic said:
100% agreed. I truly fear what we will see/hear next season.

Haha we will se sotnikova bring backs last seasons free but this time aguileras screaming continues through the whole program!

Olympia · Sep 6, 2013

SaraM said:
Haha we will se sotnikova bring backs last seasons free but this time aguileras screaming continues through the whole program!

I envision unending years of the first movement of Carmina Burana, with frenzied arm movements.

aftertherain · Sep 6, 2013

SaraM said:
Haha we will se sotnikova bring backs last seasons free but this time aguileras screaming continues through the whole program!

Olympia said:
I envision unending years of the first movement of Carmina Burana, with frenzied arm movements.

Please don't give anyone any ideas.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 6, 2013

SaraM said:
Haha we will se sotnikova bring backs last seasons free but this time aguileras screaming continues through the whole program!

That is probably the worst music I have ever heard for a skater I like. I agree that I prefer no vocals because I often enjoy the instrumental versions of familiar vocal songs.

gmyers · Sep 6, 2013

Did the judges not reward V/M Carmen? They won world silver! How about Ashley Wagner breakout to Swan Lake/Black Swan? Judges are so consistent in telling skaters to use Swan Lake and Carmen! All of them love the classics! They want more Carmen's! More Swan Lake's! More Sheherzade! If they could they might want to impose this music on all skaters at the beginning of a season! Maybe ladies/Sheherzade! Men/Carmen or LAdies/Carmen men/Sheherzade!. Judges are always reliable in music biases.

Finnstep · Sep 6, 2013

gmyers said:
Did the judges not reward V/M Carmen? They won world silver! How about Ashley Wagner breakout to Swan Lake/Black Swan? Judges are so consistent in telling skaters to use Swan Lake and Carmen! All of them love the classics! They want more Carmen's! More Swan Lake's! More Sheherzade! If they could they might want to impose this music on all skaters at the beginning of a season! Maybe ladies/Sheherzade! Men/Carmen or LAdies/Carmen men/Sheherzade!. Judges are always reliable in music biases.

I don't think they did. Virtue/Moir's "modern" Carmen wasn't the type of Carmen that the judges liked.

But I would say Cappellini/Lanotte's Carmen was successful. They placed third in FD at last Worlds.

aftertherain · Sep 6, 2013

Finnstep said:
gmyers said:

Did the judges not reward V/M Carmen? They won world silver!

Click to expand...

I don't think they did. Virtue/Moir's "modern" Carmen wasn't the type of Carmen that the judges liked.

But I would say Cappellini/Lanotte's Carmen was successful. They placed third in FD at last Worlds.

I disagree. Virtue/Moir earned fifteen 10.00s in PCS for that program at 2012 Worlds--seven of them for Performance/Execution, four of them for choreography, and another four for Interpretation/Timing. They had as many 10.00s for Interpretation/Timing as D/W had! They also had the same PCS overall for Performance (9.96) and Interpretation/Timing (9.86) as D/W.

V/M's overall PCS was off by about 0.40 (58.79 D/W vs. 58.32 V/M), while their TES was off by about 0.80 (53.85 D/W vs. 52.65 V/M).

I don't know about you, but I would still call that appreciation.

In my opinion, they weren't "rewarded" because they weren't as clean as D/W. By others' standards they were excellent, but by their own standards? Nope! And they hadn't been squeaky clean and/or synchonized the whole season for that program. And if it seems like I'm nitpicking, it's because I am. With V/M and D/W, you kind of have to.

And poor C/L had to go right after V/M. It probably would have been better for them to go before. But oh well, third in the FD is awesome.

---

But I digress. To be honest, I'm not looking forward to more Swan Lake and/or Carmen. I watched and re-watched Mao Asada's and Ashley Wagner's "Swan" programs A LOT last season (Thank you, YouTube--TBS remains Ashley's best program; sorry S&D), and the same goes for V/M's "Carmen." I love them all!

Finnstep · Sep 6, 2013

aftertherain said:
I disagree. Virtue/Moir earned fifteen 10.00s in PCS for that program at 2012 Worlds--seven of them for Performance/Execution, four of them for choreography, and another four for Interpretation/Timing. They had as many 10.00s for Interpretation/Timing as D/W had! They also had the same PCS overall for Performance (9.96) and Interpretation/Timing (9.86) as D/W.

V/M's overall PCS was off by about 0.40 (58.79 D/W vs. 58.32 V/M), while their TES was off by about 0.80 (53.85 D/W vs. 52.65 V/M).

I don't know about you, but I would still call that appreciation.

In my opinion, they weren't "rewarded" because they weren't as clean as D/W. By others' standards they were excellent, but by their own standards? Nope! And they hadn't been squeaky clean and/or synchonized the whole season for that program. And if it seems like I'm nitpicking, it's because I am. With V/M and D/W, you kind of have to.

And poor C/L had to go right after V/M. It probably would have been better for them to go before. But oh well, third in the FD is awesome.

I actually think that skating on the home ice helped them to get a similar PCS to Davis/White's PCS.

SaraM · Sep 7, 2013

Maos swan lake last season wad epic thougr..

BlackPack · Sep 7, 2013

gmyers said:
Did the judges not reward V/M Carmen? They won world silver! How about Ashley Wagner breakout to Swan Lake/Black Swan? Judges are so consistent in telling skaters to use Swan Lake and Carmen! All of them love the classics! They want more Carmen's! More Swan Lake's! More Sheherzade! If they could they might want to impose this music on all skaters at the beginning of a season! Maybe ladies/Sheherzade! Men/Carmen or LAdies/Carmen men/Sheherzade!. Judges are always reliable in music biases.

The ISU is excellent at imposing stupid rules. They might just make skating to Carmen/Swan Lake/Sher/etcetc mandatory like the former Compulsory Dances. :eek:

On the other end of the extreme in which the idiotic ISU is also prone to, they may also start rewarding skaters for using "original" music. We might hear some weird, eardrum-busting sh** (remember Krylova's Cat or African music or whatever it was supposed to be?). At that point, we'd gladly welcome Carmen et al back.

FSGMT · Sep 7, 2013

Well, am I the only one who likes Carmen/Swan Lake? I hate the low-level-all-looking-the-same programs, but if one of the top skaters uses an overused music and creates a wonderful program... I don't find anything wrong in it! Especially because they're overused because they're incredibly beautiful works of art, and I'll be never tired of listening to Carmen or Swan Lake! If a skater wants to use one of these musics because she/he has never done it before and he/she loves it, he/she shouldn't do it just because we fans are tired of hearing the same music over and over?

(this is just my opinion, I know many of you will disagree 100% :slink:

)

bramweld · Sep 7, 2013

An excellent program is just that. If you can make a warhorse your own all the better. I'll reserve judgement till we see the programs. It could be that this year classics are created

TheCzar · Sep 7, 2013

Loved Asada's Swan last season though (the step sequence was so on point, it's as if she was fouette-ing on ice!), so it's alright for her. Wagner's in comparison was more affiliated with the movie than the actual ballet, so that had its own merits.

As far as Carmen goes- The best Carmen for me, still (and this is since Vancouver ofc), is Mirai's Oly FP but then we have to take in consideration that at the time, it was such a big moment for Mirai because she was a legitimate threat for bronze. She was coming for Joannie's wig.

I'm curious to see Max Aaron's version although not with high hopes. In the ladies- I would put my money on a clean Adelina. She's got good musicality, and although Lena's Carmen looks 'aight....she always comes off a little trampy to me. I think that's a left over from her traumatic Pirates SP.

Binthere · Sep 7, 2013

I agree with the comments that it is a vicious cycle. The judges reward familiar music, and this is sadly a reflection of who they are, their backgrounds, the context that they are judging.

It has been said elsewhere, but next year I wouldn't be surprised if we continued to get Carmen, but with the vocals ADDED! :laugh:

More Carmen and Swan Lake!!! REALLY?????

GF2445

Finnstep

russell30

BlackPack

SaraM

kwanatic

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SaraM

Olympia

aftertherain

drivingmissdaisy

gmyers

Finnstep

aftertherain

Finnstep

SaraM

BlackPack

FSGMT

bramweld

TheCzar

Binthere

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