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Thread: More Carmen and Swan Lake!!! REALLY?????

  1. #31
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    For sure, I expect it to show up in the developmental ranks (Pre-pre-Juv in the US, maybe even Intermediate/Novice levels). It already shows up at Basic Skills competitions -- a lot. Since a skater can judge Basic Skills competitions, I've done my fair share and in one group of younger, lower level (Basic 2? Basic 3?) skaters, we had 3 "Under the Sea"s and 2 "When you Wish Upon a Star"s and in an older group of Basic 6 or Basic 7, we have two "Fireworks" by Katy Perry. Ugh.

  2. #32
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to the arias from operas being performed by sopranos, mezzos, etc. & used by skaters. Perhaps those of you who disparage its current use will find it more appealing when heard vocally?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    I'm looking forward to the arias from operas being performed by sopranos, mezzos, etc. & used by skaters. Perhaps those of you who disparage its current use will find it more appealing when heard vocally?
    Yeah, Merrywidow; can you imagine one of Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs? I fear you and I are not in the mainstream on this, but one can always dream! Or maybe something like this for a short program, a baroque piece called Bastiao. (Heaven only knows what they're saying, but golly, what a rhythm!)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62xfkKkYsCw

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Judges are so consistent in telling skaters to use Swan Lake and Carmen! All of them love the classics! They want more Carmen's! More Swan Lake's! More Sheherzade! If they could they might want to impose this music on all skaters at the beginning of a season! Maybe ladies/Sheherzade! Men/Carmen or LAdies/Carmen men/Sheherzade!. Judges are always reliable in music biases.
    Because all judges have identical opinions about music, regardless of whether they are 35 or 65, Ukrainian or Korean or Australian, are tone deaf or have studied music extensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    On the other end of the extreme in which the idiotic ISU is also prone to, they may also start rewarding skaters for using "original" music. We might hear some weird, eardrum-busting sh** (remember Krylova's Cat or African music or whatever it was supposed to be?). At that point, we'd gladly welcome Carmen et al back.
    Well, "originality" is one thing that's rewarded in the rules for the Choreography component. But that can also include original movements to overused music, so even if that criterion were emphasized more it wouldn't necessarily lead to more variety of music selections.

    Some skaters might try to meet that criterion by choosing weird, eardrum-busting sh**, but if it doesn't allow them to show nuance and rhythm and flow, they won't be rewarded as much as if they used more familiar music.

    In many cases, the overused music is overused because it especially lends itself well to showcasing skating skills. And then it becomes a safe choice not only for artistically inclined skaters who want to try their own take on the classics but also for jocks who want to focus on their technique and not worry about a side of the sport they're less interested in.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan4ever View Post
    How many skaters do you think will actually take advantage of the option to skate with vocals? Just because they can skate to vocal music doesn't mean they're obligated to do so. Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    For sure, I expect it to show up in the developmental ranks (Pre-pre-Juv in the US, maybe even Intermediate/Novice levels). It already shows up at Basic Skills competitions -- a lot. Since a skater can judge Basic Skills competitions, I've done my fair share and in one group of younger, lower level (Basic 2? Basic 3?) skaters, we had 3 "Under the Sea"s and 2 "When you Wish Upon a Star"s and in an older group of Basic 6 or Basic 7, we have two "Fireworks" by Katy Perry. Ugh.
    For several years, USFS has allowed vocal music up to intermediate level, in all adult events, and in test track 6.0-judged events up to senior as well as Basic Skills events, and in programs for freestyle tests.

    Yes, I've heard a lot of insipid Disney and pop songs in Basic Skills events and in artistic events. Occasionally I've heard vocal music in IJS-level competition (just not standard novice-senior where it hasn't been allowed yet). Occasionally the choices are distracting -- sometimes I find myself paying more attention to the singing than to the skating.

    The most successful programs I've seen to vocal music have used classic rock songs -- chosen by adult skaters or likely by coach/choreographer in the case of the kids. If the choreographer knows what s/he's doing, it can work -- I can only hope that whichever elite skaters go that route will choose wisely.


    How soon will it take before we can make a list of overused vocal selections?
    We've had vocal music in ice dance for over a decade now. What's overused there?
    My problem with many of the free dance selections is that they don't seem to be sufficiently rhythmic for a discipline that's supposed to be based on interpreting rhythms.

  5. #35
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I don't know about the judges, but I think the audience likes to hear what they like to hear. What do they like to hear? Carmen.

  6. #36
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    Carmen is probably a more popular choice for skating than most operas because many of the big arias are based on dance rhythms - e.g., the Habenera, the Seguidilla, etc. This is not the case with most operatic numbers.

    Also - the tunes in Carmen really are spectacularly catchy.

    Irresistible as Carmen may be, however, there is a limit to how often even the most appreciative listener wants to hear it, so I do wish singles skaters would use it more sparingly.

  7. #37
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCzar View Post
    I'm curious to see Max Aaron's version although not with high hopes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know about the judges, but I think the audience likes to hear what they like to hear. What do they like to hear? Carmen.
    I too am curious about Max Aaron's Carmen ... with high hopes.
    In his TSL interview this summer, Kirk and Lease teased him quite forcefully about picking Carmen. With a smile on his face, Max acknowledged Carmen's overuse and calmly explained why he chose it anyway. Some of his comments [I'm just paraphrasing]:
    - Carmen is a crowd-pleaser. To this day, Max finds himself clapping along when he hears the music.
    - He has wanted to skate to Carmen since he was nine years old.
    - The selections at the beginning of his FS will not obviously smack of Carmen, unless one knows the entire opera extremely well. Max hopes to draw the audience members in as they wonder, "What is this music? Could it be from Carmen?" As his program proceeds, the later passages will sound more familiar.

  8. #38
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    It seems that most Carmen programs are actually drawn from Shchedrin's Carmen Suite (which references just some of the most prominent Carmen tunes) rather than the full opera. There is a lot of great music in Carmen that doesn't get heard much in skating, so if Max has plumbed some of the underused segments of the score, more power to him.

  9. #39
    Rinkside
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    Surya Bonaly would tell them to shove it, twerk to 'We Can't Stop' and the sport would be a better place.

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